Lonnie Holdaway and the Hurricane CD reissues scam

[stormspell]

But that still doesn't make it right...they are still stealing. It's not like Paypal is the federal government. When a person is convicted of dealing drugs, the government can seize any of that person's property, be it real or personal, because the argument can be made that it was purchased with "drug money". Paypal seems to be using the same logic...the preorder money was used to purchase other goods, so that money is forfeit...sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

 

I dont know... If PayPal are canceling ONLY those payments Lon paid with the stolen money and sellers cannot show proof of shipment, and THEN if PayPal automatically use those money for refunding the eligible "preorder" claims I can see some logic in that.

 

After all this is one of the very common cons people like Arwhine are pulling constantly - register "hit-and-run" paypal account, dont link bank account to it or request paypal check to withdraw which could be traced easily, but instead simply "pay" someone and thus effectively move the stolen money safely away. I think PayPal is simply trying to prevent that in Lon's case, I may be wrong though.

[& then]

Well this thread is rapidly expanding out in all directions... and none of them good.

1. PayPal isn't the problem here. Let's not try and deflect the issue. PayPal does NOT retroactively reverse payments upon its own initiative and randomly pick successful transactions to reverse in order to bring some other account up to a zero balance. Why would it want to? It would be robbing Peter to pay Paul and would be doing much more damage to itself by pissing off many more people. If PayPal reversed the payments to NEH it was because either (1) Lonnie made a claim with PayPal that the merchandise was never received or (2) Lonnie or his bank initiated a claim that the payment was made with nonauthorized funds or a stolen credit card.
    
   PayPal does not operate in a vacuum. Use some common sense.
    
    
   
2. Lonnie has PM'ed me saying that the loan HAS been approved and that refunds will be received by all next week.
    
    
   
3. Lonnie claims that he has shown this thread to his attorney and that his attorney says that it "falls easily under slander and defamation of character." Lonnie has asked that this thread be removed or else he "will have to go a different direction and get my attorney involved."
    
   I disbelieve. If his attorney actually said that, then Lonnie needs to hire a new attorney. Slander is vocal defamation of character, not written. An attorney would refer to a claim in the print medium as "libel" not "slander."
    
   But hey, I'm a reasonable guy. I responded as follows:
    

   I will remove the thread under the following conditions:
    
   1. I receive independent confirmation from all the known affected parties (including Georg, Music-Buy-Mail, and Adriano) that they have indeed received full refunds, and
    
   2. I receive a formal request to remove the thread in writing, on the letterhead of your attorney, sent via certified mail.
    
   I can not and will not remove threads from the message board, or pages from the main site, based on an informal request. Otherwise I will be accused of "siding" with one party or another. If I have a formal request through legal channels, then I have documentation as to the process.
    
   -Dan

I've had all sorts of threats from people over the years to take down bad reviews or comments about their albums, the band, etc. It's all fuster and bluster and then they threaten to sue me, etc. They figure they can intimidate me into removing material that they don't like. Mark Alger tried at length to get me to take down the Z Records page, first by threatening me, then by trying to bribe me with promo releases (which he never did send me).

 

If a bona fide law firm makes a proper formal request in writing I will take it seriously, but otherwise it's all just B.S.

 

-Dan

 

 

Dan

 

I guess we will see how it all plays out. Paypal did the reversal and it was not due to a claim made by me. but you knowing all i can see how you would turn it all around, which is fine. I asked for info from you, i will wait and see if i receive it.

 

We are seeing how it's playing out.....& it's not good, IMHO! One of the first responses was something along the lines of "all will be refunded by friday & then I'll explain everything" ok, well that friday has come & gone, then it was last friday, well......it's also over! I truly hope this isn't an attempt to divert attention away from the main problem, as well as the newer claims from NEH, Grab.em and/or saying Dan is trying to reword your request(?) to remove this thread!? "defemation of character" CHARACTER being one of the main words here! What about your character, Lovid?! Saying that you were releasing "reissues" of numerous bands material(s), only to have most of, if not ALL of them stating/responding with "we never heard of this, him nor gave their permission to ANYONE to do so! Not to mention pre-selling releases that were never made(?), for if they were the bands probably would've come after ya alot sooner, to numerous people....both here and/or worldwide! What would/do you call that? The clock continues to tick......the sands of the hourglass are running out!

[Mullethead]

Wow! Lots happening today...looks like from what I read Lonnie is not at fault again & wants all these bad things taken off the website. LOL!!! wow, that's funny. Yeah, I don't blame you. I wouldn't want anyone else to know I was a crook either.

 

 

As for Paypal...as much as I don't want to side with him I have to believe that Lonnie didn't file claims. I only have my last experience with him as a buyer as an example. I always send things that can be tracked, especially in the US because it's cheap for delivery confirmation. Lonnie had won a white lion cd from me and paid promptly as he always did. I sent it out delivery confirmation as always and that was the end of that...or so I thought.

 

I got an e-mail a few weeks ago from Paypal wanting proof I sent the cd or they would take back the funds he paid me with. So I sent them the confirmation number and they unfroze my funds from him. Anyone who gets this e-mail from Paypal just needs to send them the confirmation number. If you didn't send it with a tracking number, then you're an idiot but that's besides the point. You have to protect yourself always...it's been said on here time & time again.

 

My point is that Lonnie would have seen that the package had a confirmation number on it when he received it. So why waste your time filing a claim? I really think Paypal initiated all these claims. I guess it's a way to get their money back.

 

I'm not hopping in the shower with Lonnie here because I still think he's a snake but it wouldn't make sense to me. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Jarred

 

These packages were sent without delivery confirmation. In ten years of sending 50-100 packages a day I've only had a couple not arrive to US destinations and it's cheaper for me to eat the cost of those and replace them rather than pay fifty or sixty cents a package for delivery confirmation on every single one). However, this experience might make me change my mind about that.

 

 

 

You shouldn't have to eat anything. You make it part of your shipping costs so the customer pays for it. I have been that through Ebay for years and have never had a complaint. The only people who bitch about it are the one's out to screw you over.

 

I hope you get your money back my friend...

 

Jarred

[chocularok]

I dont know... If PayPal are canceling ONLY those payments Lon paid with the stolen money and sellers cannot show proof of shipment, and THEN if PayPal automatically use those money for refunding the eligible "preorder" claims I can see some logic in that.

 

After all this is one of the very common cons people like Arwhine are pulling constantly - register "hit-and-run" paypal account, dont link bank account to it or request paypal check to withdraw which could be traced easily, but instead simply "pay" someone and thus effectively move the stolen money safely away. I think PayPal is simply trying to prevent that in Lon's case, I may be wrong though.

 

That would make sense if Lonnie made a couple of large payments, effectively "moving" the money to another account. But we're talking about peolple who have sold Lonnie cd's & then getting screwed if they didn't ship the cd's with delivery confirmation. Any way you look at it, that's just wrong. Given all of Paypal's inner workings (especially since they're linked with ebay), it should be no trouble at all to tell if those funds were used to purchase goods. And if they were, that's TS for paypal. There's no way in hell a seller should have to forfeit the money.

[heavyharmonies]

Some incendiary posts that added no value to the discussion deleted.

 

Folks, let's hold off and see how the next week goes, ok? If some of the major players (Georg, Adriano, Music-Buy-Mail) have not received full refunds by 11pm on March 9, we will have a definitive answer.

 

In the interim, I would like to get a better handle on who has or has not received refunds and the extent of the refunds.

 

DO NOT POST HERE IN THIS THREAD!

 

Instead, please PM me the following information:

 

1. Your full name

2. The email address used to send the PayPal payment

3. The amount of your purchase from Lonnie

4. The date of your original payment to Lonnie

5. The date that you received a refund and its status (complete or pending)

6. The amount of the refund (full or partial)

 

Thanks,

 

-Dan

[HighNDryRulz]

Dan,

 

No matter the request from Lonnie's "lawyer," I suggest that you NEVER remove this thread. It should be here as a constant reminder of the scams Lonnie pulled.

 

I think Mullethead nailed it right on the head:

 

looks like from what I read Lonnie is not at fault again & wants all these bad things taken off the website. LOL!!! wow, that's funny. Yeah, I don't blame you. I wouldn't want anyone else to know I was a crook either.

[metalhead4life]

Dan,

 

No matter the request from Lonnie's "lawyer," I suggest that you NEVER remove this thread. It should be here as a constant reminder of the scams Lonnie pulled.

 

I think Mullethead nailed it right on the head:

 

looks like from what I read Lonnie is not at fault again & wants all these bad things taken off the website. LOL!!! wow, that's funny. Yeah, I don't blame you. I wouldn't want anyone else to know I was a crook either.

 

 

I agree, I wouldn't remove this thread either (unless of course, I had to). It should stay forever and always be a reminder or billboard of his character and wrong doing. Serves him right. Do the crime, do the time. Yep, Mullethead hit it right on. He is embarrased/ashamed to have this thread here and he should be. Hey, here's a tip: if you don't want a thread like this up then don't scam people out of their money!! Take that good advice, it's free. The only way I would remove this thread is if there were legal actions being taken in which I had to. This is definitely not worth any further problems than what has already happened - who would want to be bothered with that? The only posts I would remove are the ones that are inappropriate/vulgar which it seems Dan already has.

 

If everyone does get their refund it will make him look better but not like a scholar - thank you for refunding my money that you owe me and tried to steal from me.

 

Regardless of what happens, his name is now marked like the plague and everyone here and elsewhere will know/remember what he did.

[adboimel]

deleted

[Grab.em.all]

Hi Adriano,

 

since my last reply here the only thing i have receive is a reproaching mail for that intervention with also a threat to stop contact ... and i have to say that this time Lonnie keep one's word

 

No tracking number, no money back, no mail, NOTHING ...

 

Does anyone has any news from Lonnie?

[heavyharmonies]

Guys,

 

Emailing and PMing Lonnie every single day is NOT going to increase the likelihood of a refund. Pestering him is just going to piss him off.

 

This week means "this week". It's only Wednesday. If nothing happens by the end of Friday, let's say Saturday morning, then feel free to go apeshit. But continual nagging leading up to that point really doesn't do anyone any good...

 

I'm by no means defending Lonnie, but some of you are looking for hourly updates, and that's just plain annoying.

 

-Dan

[adboimel]

Guys,

 

Emailing and PMing Lonnie every single day is NOT going to increase the likelihood of a refund. Pestering him is just going to piss him off.

 

This week means "this week". It's only Wednesday. If nothing happens by the end of Friday, let's say Saturday morning, then feel free to go apeshit. But continual nagging leading up to that point really doesn't do anyone any good...

 

I'm by no means defending Lonnie, but some of you are looking for hourly updates, and that's just plain annoying.

 

-Dan

 

 

Sorry, Dan, I will wait until saturday

[glockose]

Guys,

 

This week means "this week". It's only Wednesday. If nothing happens by the end of Friday, let's say Saturday morning, then feel free to go apeshit.

-Dan

 

 

 

Any news of the front? 24 hours left

[Delbert]

I've also heard the old saying...."the squeaky wheel gets the grease" too!!!!!

[adboimel]

WHERE IS LONNIE? ANY NEWS?

[chocularok]

Well...anyone got anything to report? Lonnie & I had re-established contact regarding our long overdue trade from last September, but for 2-3 weeks now, he's gone silent again & hasn't responded to emails/PM's. And I haven't been "nagging" him either...I generally tried to contact him once, sometimes twice a week just to get updates, but nothing.

[& then]

Well......another week!....no refund here!.....no progress!....no updates!?.....no excuses?! Another smoke blowin' excursion? What a shame! Congrat's to those who did get their $ back!

[rob62972]

Saturday at 6:25PM ET. Did anyone affected by the scam get their promised refund??

[glockose]

 

Dan whats the word?

Silent all day.

You set the dead line,

 

Now what?

 

 

Can you feel the tension in the air

[glam_junkie]

Saturday at 6:25PM ET. Did anyone affected by the scam get their promised refund??

 

 

I got my refund approx 1 weeks ago for the hurricane cds.

Still out of pocket for some other discs I orderd, but I did get some $$$ back.

Whether the refund was initiated by Lon or paypal, i don't know.

[heavyharmonies]

I sent Lonnie a PM this morning asking for a status update. Looking at his profile, he hasn't been active here on the board since yesterday morning.

 

Has anyone here received a refund since Wedesday?

 

Bottom line is that there is nothing I can do to force Lonnie to come through on his promises. The only thing I can do is ban him, which would do nothing but decrease communication options for those of you still hoping for refunds.

 

I am, however, removing any restriction on what people want to post in this thread. There have been far too many promises and delays. I just request that any discussion be kept to this thread.

 

If the refunds don't come through, I will compose a summary of this thread and it will become a permanant sticky to this portion of the forum so people know not to buy/sell/trade with him again and new members are adequately warned.

 

-Dan

[Mullethead]

I sent Lonnie a PM this morning asking for a status update. Looking at his profile, he hasn't been active here on the board since yesterday morning.

 

Has anyone here received a refund since Wedesday?

 

Bottom line is that there is nothing I can do to force Lonnie to come through on his promises. The only thing I can do is ban him, which would do nothing but decrease communication options for those of you still hoping for refunds.

 

I am, however, removing any restriction on what people want to post in this thread. There have been far too many promises and delays. I just request that any discussion be kept to this thread.

 

If the refunds don't come through, I will compose a summary of this thread and it will become a permanant sticky to this portion of the forum so people know not to buy/sell/trade with him again and new members are adequately warned.

 

-Dan

 

 

 

So is now a good time to call him a cocksucker?

 

 

JL

[glockose]

I sent Lonnie a PM this morning asking for a status update. Looking at his profile, he hasn't been active here on the board since yesterday morning.

 

Has anyone here received a refund since Wedesday?

 

Bottom line is that there is nothing I can do to force Lonnie to come through on his promises. The only thing I can do is ban him, which would do nothing but decrease communication options for those of you still hoping for refunds.

 

I am, however, removing any restriction on what people want to post in this thread. There have been far too many promises and delays. I just request that any discussion be kept to this thread.

 

If the refunds don't come through, I will compose a summary of this thread and it will become a permanant sticky to this portion of the forum so people know not to buy/sell/trade with him again and new members are adequately warned.

 

-Dan

 

Well stated. I believe you have handled this very well.

But like you said there is only so much you can do.

Thank you!

 

 

Unfortunatly this might get very ugly come Monday

[Studboy]

I sent Lonnie a PM this morning asking for a status update. Looking at his profile, he hasn't been active here on the board since yesterday morning.

 

Has anyone here received a refund since Wedesday?

 

Bottom line is that there is nothing I can do to force Lonnie to come through on his promises. The only thing I can do is ban him, which would do nothing but decrease communication options for those of you still hoping for refunds.

 

I am, however, removing any restriction on what people want to post in this thread. There have been far too many promises and delays. I just request that any discussion be kept to this thread.

 

If the refunds don't come through, I will compose a summary of this thread and it will become a permanant sticky to this portion of the forum so people know not to buy/sell/trade with him again and new members are adequately warned.

 

-Dan

 

 

 

So is now a good time to call him a cocksucker?

 

 

JL

 

Damn, you go right to the point don't you

[IronSaviour]

I sent Lonnie a PM this morning asking for a status update. Looking at his profile, he hasn't been active here on the board since yesterday morning.

 

Has anyone here received a refund since Wedesday?

 

Bottom line is that there is nothing I can do to force Lonnie to come through on his promises. The only thing I can do is ban him, which would do nothing but decrease communication options for those of you still hoping for refunds.

 

I am, however, removing any restriction on what people want to post in this thread. There have been far too many promises and delays. I just request that any discussion be kept to this thread.

 

If the refunds don't come through, I will compose a summary of this thread and it will become a permanant sticky to this portion of the forum so people know not to buy/sell/trade with him again and new members are adequately warned.

 

-Dan

 

 

 

So is now a good time to call him a cocksucker?

 

 

JL

 

[Chris]

I sent Lonnie a PM this morning asking for a status update. Looking at his profile, he hasn't been active here on the board since yesterday morning.

 

Has anyone here received a refund since Wedesday?

 

Bottom line is that there is nothing I can do to force Lonnie to come through on his promises. The only thing I can do is ban him, which would do nothing but decrease communication options for those of you still hoping for refunds.

 

I am, however, removing any restriction on what people want to post in this thread. There have been far too many promises and delays. I just request that any discussion be kept to this thread.

 

If the refunds don't come through, I will compose a summary of this thread and it will become a permanant sticky to this portion of the forum so people know not to buy/sell/trade with him again and new members are adequately warned.

 

-Dan

 

 

 

So is now a good time to call him a cocksucker?

 

 

JL

Not a second wasted...