Lonnie Holdaway and the Hurricane CD reissues scam

[glam_junkie]

A good reason for not saying anything in regards to the situation would be due to legal issues. If Lon is talking to a lawyer (as he says he is) then you can guarantee that the lawyer would be telling him to keep quiet. That's always the case.

 

Bingo. That was exactly what I was thinking as I typed my last post. Not wise to admit fraud that could cost you felony charges.

 

I'm not saying to protect himself... but to protect any case he may have against others (if they exist).

Whether your the innocent or guilty parties, lawyers always want you to keep your mouth shut incase the wrong thing is said.

 

All I can say is that it;'s good to see Lon lodging a few refunds, and hope it continues.

[hsf]

A good reason for not saying anything in regards to the situation would be due to legal issues. If Lon is talking to a lawyer (as he says he is) then you can guarantee that the lawyer would be telling him to keep quiet. That's always the case.

 

Bingo. That was exactly what I was thinking as I typed my last post. Not wise to admit fraud that could cost you felony charges.

 

So, does the legal advisor tell him that it's not even wise to say "My attorney has advised me that any specifics cannot be discussed at this time." and that's why he hasn't said anything?

 

I mean, I'm not in it one way or another, but I've been wondering this for quite a few pages now, just never spoke up because I'm "not involved" and don't want to get yelled at for butting in where I don't belong. But, I've been curious to that: even if everyone didn't believe it, why wouldn't you just use that (as a real reason if it was so or as an excuse) and tell people you can't talk about it. All I've seen so far is the equivalent of "I'll explain if you take the time to call me. As far as telling everyone, fugeddoboudit." That attitude doesn't seem to be the most conducive to getting people off your back (not that saying "Lawyer say no talk." will do much better).

 

Just a point of contention that I've had that hasn't been brought up till now. It's probably neither here nor there, but, I've never agreed with that whole argument "If you talk to me then you'll know the truth." Does that mean all the stuff you say here (elsewhere online) is a bunch of crap? Just silly if you ask me.

[Guest aor]

I got the message below from Mike (NEH). This may explain why some has got a refound.

I guess it's needless to comment that the behaviour from paypal is also pretty much ridiculous, cause why should a guy like Mike, which has delivered the goods, has to pay the bill for things which he was never involved.

 

Greets

Georg

 

 

Georg,

 

I know that you tried to buy some Hurricane CDs from Lonnie Holdaway and got screwed by his scam. I was fortunate because I did not try to buy any from him so I did not get involved that way. However, I just noticed that Mr. Holdaway made four purchases through my web site in January for a total of over $300.00. He paid with PayPal. Now, because of the investigation that PayPal is doing over his illegal activities they have put these funds on hold and I cannot access or deposit them. Just curious – is this happening to you also?

 

 

 

Mike McPherson

 

NEH Records

[stormspell]

However, I just noticed that Mr. Holdaway made four purchases through my web site in January for a total of over $300.00. He paid with PayPal. Now, because of the investigation that PayPal is doing over his illegal activities they have put these funds on hold and I cannot access or deposit them...

 

Wow, hold on! If Lon's claim that Ramierez bros had hijacked his paypal account is true, how could he use the account for placing 4 (FOUR!) orders from NEH? Something smells fishy here...

 

The key question would be, were those orders placed before January 13-th (when Lon started taking preorders), or after. I'd find it very hard to believe in the Ramierez story if Lon has been shopping around using his paypal after January 13-th.

[Mullethead]

However, I just noticed that Mr. Holdaway made four purchases through my web site in January for a total of over $300.00. He paid with PayPal. Now, because of the investigation that PayPal is doing over his illegal activities they have put these funds on hold and I cannot access or deposit them...

 

Wow, hold on! If Lon's claim that Ramierez bros had hijacked his paypal account is true, how could he use the account for placing 4 (FOUR!) orders from NEH? Something smells fishy here...

 

The key question would be, were those orders placed before January 13-th (when Lon started taking preorders), or after. I'd find it very hard to believe in the Ramierez story if Lon has been shopping around using his paypal after January 13-th.

 

 

 

It is yet another lie in this story. Lon sent me a PM a while back wanting to buy my White Lion - Pride Japan first pressing. Unless the Ramierez brothers were using his HH account also The funds he used to pay with are also on hold in my account & even though Lovid didn't file a claim I had to provide the tracking number. Thank God for delivery confirmation...

 

Either way, I am frustrated that Paypal is holding $76 of mine (on top of the $160 I spent w/ Lovid). They got a very not-nice e-mail from me. I told them if that money was not back in my account by Monday I would call Monday & close the Goddamn thing.

 

Paypal = Dumbasses...

 

JL

[stormspell]

It is yet another lie in this story. Lon sent me a PM a while back wanting to buy my White Lion - Pride Japan first pressing. Unless the Ramierez brothers were using his HH account also The funds he used to pay with are also on hold in my account & even though Lovid didn't file a claim I had to provide the tracking number. Thank God for delivery confirmation...

 

Either way, I am frustrated that Paypal is holding $76 of mine (on top of the $160 I spent w/ Lovid). They got a very not-nice e-mail from me. I told them if that money was not back in my account by Monday I would call Monday & close the Goddamn thing.

 

Paypal = Dumbasses...

 

JL

 

Whoa dude, that $76 are real insult to the inlury man! I feel sorry for you and hope paypal wil release them soon!

 

Did Lon buy this White Lion CD after January 13-th? Seems he has been spending quite generously the preorder monies... no wonder he has hard time refunding people...

[Guest NEH Records]

However, I just noticed that Mr. Holdaway made four purchases through my web site in January for a total of over $300.00. He paid with PayPal. Now, because of the investigation that PayPal is doing over his illegal activities they have put these funds on hold and I cannot access or deposit them...

 

Wow, hold on! If Lon's claim that Ramierez bros had hijacked his paypal account is true, how could he use the account for placing 4 (FOUR!) orders from NEH? Something smells fishy here...

 

The key question would be, were those orders placed before January 13-th (when Lon started taking preorders), or after. I'd find it very hard to believe in the Ramierez story if Lon has been shopping around using his paypal after January 13-th.

 

The four purchases were made on January 25, 28, 29, and 30 - a total of $386.78 in goods sold. The CDs were all shipped to him but I cannot access the funds because PayPal is preventing me from depositing the money even though it is in my PayPal account. I asked one of the apes that works in their customer service department if I would receive interest on the frozen funds once this is resolved. Got the answer I expected - NO.

[rob62972]

Looks like Mr. Holdaway is lying again. He can't refund anybody because his PayPal account is frozen, yet he's out there buying shit. What the hell is wrong with this picture??

 

I think it's time we contacted the Attorney General. This con-artist must be stopped!

[koogles]

I still say we get a donation page up and running...

 

Dan?

[heavyharmonies]

First, several distracting posts removed. If you don't care that people here were systematically ripped off, then just move on to another topic. Belittling the affected people doesn't help the situation, nor does it do you any favors...

 

I still say we get a donation page up and running...

 

Dan?

 

No. Getting people to donate lets Lonnie off the hook at this point. I want to see how this plays out and whether or not Lonnie is true to his word. [Ok, I can here the laughter now; bear with me for a sec...] Some people have gotten refunds. Not all, but the number is increasing. Let's give it time to work. Let's see if Lonnie actually gets a loan and repays anything to Adriano and Georg.

 

Also, there's the logistics of how you handle donations, to whom they go, and how you determine that recipients are ones that were actually ripped off. How do you handle PayPal fees? Is it done with a single PayPal link? If so, to whose account? Are they trustworthy? How do you make sure that someone doesn't receive donations in excess of the amount they originally lost? Are there tax implications? What if someone donates and then does a chargeback, or does a donation with a stolen credit card? The person whose PayPal account is the "clearing house" could end up being hit.

 

As always, the devil is in the details...

 

-Dan

[Mullethead]

First, several distracting posts removed. If you don't care that people here were systematically ripped off, then just move on to another topic. Belittling the affected people doesn't help the situation, nor does it do you any favors...

 

I still say we get a donation page up and running...

 

Dan?

 

No. Getting people to donate lets Lonnie off the hook at this point. I want to see how this plays out and whether or not Lonnie is true to his word. [Ok, I can here the laughter now; bear with me for a sec...] Some people have gotten refunds. Not all, but the number is increasing. Let's give it time to work. Let's see if Lonnie actually gets a loan and repays anything to Adriano and Georg.

 

Also, there's the logistics of how you handle donations, to whom they go, and how you determine that recipients are ones that were actually ripped off. How do you handle PayPal fees? Is it done with a single PayPal link? If so, to whose account? Are they trustworthy? How do you make sure that someone doesn't receive donations in excess of the amount they originally lost? Are there tax implications? What if someone donates and then does a chargeback, or does a donation with a stolen credit card? The person whose PayPal account is the "clearing house" could end up being hit.

 

As always, the devil is in the details...

 

-Dan

 

 

I agree with everything said here. I believe it's still a good idea Koogs, just the timing is off a bit. Another thing to remember here is that the refunds issued are "pending". Which means the money is not in the account yet & may not make it there at all.

 

I would be fine sending funds to Dan as most would consider him 100% trustworthy. I would recommend checks though. As Dan said, too many issues with Paypal. Hopefully, we don't have to worry about it anyway & everyone gets their money back....

 

Jarred

[speed demon]

Well put Dan and Jarred!

 

Even though I have no money wraped up in this I hope and pray that EVERYONE gets their money back. As Dan said let's see what Lonnie gets done.After all it's his responsibility. No one else. Will he do the right thing? Only time will tell my friends. As we all know actions speak louder than words. What is just fantastic to me is how members here have come forward offering to donate to help one anthor. Speaks of this community don't you think. Nuff said

[heaven&hell]

Here are the ones who have been refunded so far:

 

Brian 1 of 2

Christine

Steve/Studboy

Ray Seifert

Jarred- 1 of 2

T-Bone

Wes

Chris Berger

 

As i said i am doing them as i can, i am in the process of checking on the whole loan thing this morning to take care of all the rest. It is all i can do, but i am trying here.

 

 

I do have a refund pending.

 

 

 

I still have a refund.............................pending.

[glam_junkie]

Just curious....

Are any of those that have received refunds (clear or pending) from outside the US?

[HighNDryRulz]

Okay, I have been out of town for a few days and not able to keep up with much.

 

But I spoke with a person last night whom Lonnie tried to scam with the Hurricane CDs less than 2 days before Lon's scam blew up in his face (Lon spoke with this person on the phone.) This person has not chosen to post about this yet, so I will keep the identity secret.

 

But now I have actually spoken with a person whom Lonnie tried to scam.

 

Based on this conversation alone, I would advise to hold EVERYTHING Lon has to say in suspect.

 

...Not to mention the numerous other obvious reasons that have been mentioned in this thread......

 

 

Dan,

 

I totally agree with your hesitation on the donations idea. This is something for the courts, not a music board.

[& then]

From Paypal:

 

"We have completed our investigation of this case. We attempted to process a refund from the seller's account to your account. Unfortunately, the seller's account does not contain the funds necessary to cover this refund. We were able to recover $0.00 USD. We have taken action against the seller and are working to recover the remainder of your refund. We will contact you when we have more information. No further action is required of you at this time."

 

I am still waiting for Lonnie´s proofs...

 

Does anybody trust I will receive the cds or any money? Any advice?

 

Dude--- I have been staying quiet through all of this but I had just sent $103 a few days before the alleged accident!! I-too just recieved the beloved email from paypal about the bullshit of me not getting my money back!! I am a firm believer in "What Goes Around,Comes Around"!!! I dont see how a guy that was so respected around here can Fuck everyone that considered him a friend!! It takes a long time to develop a friendship and seconds to destroy it!! I know i dont speak much on here but i have read a lot of threads and i have a lot of respect for alot of people on here!! Just remember something Lonnie--- When you wake up in the morning and look your self in the mirror--- Your the one that has to live with what you have done!! There is no amount of money that is worth losing friends over and it appears you have lost a FUCKLOAD of them!! What a DUMBASS!! Later Rich

 

I received the same email recently, too! Another to add to the rather large list! Of the list of folks/members I think only two have received full refunds? With a couple of other's getting partial refunds, maybe Lovid is trying to make amends to some or maybe trying to buy more time? I've said before that refunding those who've sent him large sums should be the priority, but I tend to think he's only making partial refunds to bide more time, for what purpose I don't know (possibly a defense attorney, which may be the case? & a smart move!), but it shouldn't take a week, two weeks, a month or "by friday" (which f'n friday? the one that's after a month of sundays?!!!!!) to send refunds to those who sent YOU, not the RamBro's $100 or less or any amount...BS!

 

Lovid, what were you thinking? Were you thinking,? Let's see....you were going to reissue some bands music via a new company that you were in control of, or at least partially(?) in charge of....but, yet, it turns out none of these bands knew of this, heard of you, your company or, VERY IMPORTANTLY, has given you, your company or other's associated with you their permission to do any "reissuing" with or w/o bonus tracks, auto's or limited edition this or that & that YOU allowed other's access to your paypal account......MORE BS! Did you think/hope that the people/bands invloved, whether here, on eBay or on the interent wouldn't find this & you out, realize what you were trying to do....but especially the BANDS themselves?!?!?!?! Now here's a thought, IF you had actually made or had these "reissues" produced & actually sell them to folks....wherever.....then you would have more then a few legal issues, i.e., the bands/artists/record labels would surely have found out, seeked you out & then probably sue'd you in a flash, unless you had a legit, binding contract with the bands/artists/record labels!

 

Lesson(s) both to be learned, more importantly as for myself, don't believe everything you hear, even if it's being said by a person that many held in high regards. Take the time & make the effort to verify, whether directly with the band or member of a band in question before ever sending any $$ that it's legit or not. I realize that doesn't help those affected much, nor lessen the sting/disgust now. This would have probably both drawn more attention to this mess, stopped it before reaching this point and/or helped prevent much of it to begin with, that's hard to say/debatable/somewhat moot, now. I, personally, don't know any of the members of the bands, but I should've made the effort to contact one or more before sending any $$!!!!! In a day when quite a number of small labels & some major one's are reissuing some bands' material(s) whether with bonus tracks, live versions or demos I think it's both kinda hard to follow all of them & wait for them (either the bands themselves or their labels/management) to issue or reissue their catalog(s) in the near future, example; the Columbia/Epic labels reissued some Mountain & Ted Nugent releases a couple of years back, as a 20 or 25th year anniversary of the original releases, but 20+ years to wait? As for the Hurricane material, I, for one, would really like to see/hear their early catalog remastered, reissued, but, now, I won't be buying any, until one or more members endorse it themselves! Maybe they're waiting for the 20 or 25th year anniversay? It would be very interesting to hear directly from Hurricane & here, mostly in regard to their great music and/or when to expect it re-released legitimately!

 

Steps off the & mumbles!

[TheRipper]

I just talked to Kelly himself on Friday in person and he said the whole thing is a mess. Yeah, that's for sure. He said Foreigner management had taken some steps to persue where this was all coming from but said they told him they can't do much for a hoax someone started to collect unsuspecting people's money (guess that's just false advertising and fraud, therefore the job of legal officials to take care of). They would only get involved if someone was reissuing his stuff illegally/without permission and selling it, which up until this point seems to not be the case...since nobody ever got a CD, and there was never really any actual plans to release anything by Hurricane from "Never Say Die" records (with or without bonus tracks or signatures, especially).

[Mullethead]

I just talked to Kelly himself on Friday in person and he said the whole thing is a mess. Yeah, that's for sure. He said Foreigner management had taken some steps to persue where this was all coming from but said they told him they can't do much for a hoax someone started to collect unsuspecting people's money (guess that's just false advertising and fraud, therefore the job of legal officials to take care of). They would only get involved if someone was reissuing his stuff illegally/without permission and selling it, which up until this point seems to not be the case...since nobody ever got a CD, and there was never really any actual plans to release anything by Hurricane from "Never Say Die" records (with or without bonus tracks or signatures, especially).

 

 

 

I think there is more they could do if they wanted to. This whole thing can't be good for the Hurricane name.

 

 

JL

[dawallman2004]

I just talked to Kelly himself on Friday in person and he said the whole thing is a mess. Yeah, that's for sure. He said Foreigner management had taken some steps to persue where this was all coming from but said they told him they can't do much for a hoax someone started to collect unsuspecting people's money (guess that's just false advertising and fraud, therefore the job of legal officials to take care of). They would only get involved if someone was reissuing his stuff illegally/without permission and selling it, which up until this point seems to not be the case...since nobody ever got a CD, and there was never really any actual plans to release anything by Hurricane from "Never Say Die" records (with or without bonus tracks or signatures, especially).

 

 

 

I think there is more they could do if they wanted to. This whole thing can't be good for the Hurricane name.

 

 

JL

 

Yeah-- you cant take anything away from the band because they are one of the best to come from that era--but it still kinda leaves a bad taste!!! Later Rich

[metalhead4life]

Here are the ones who have been refunded so far:

 

Brian 1 of 2

Christine

Steve/Studboy

Ray Seifert

Jarred- 1 of 2

T-Bone

Wes

Chris Berger

 

As i said i am doing them as i can, i am in the process of checking on the whole loan thing this morning to take care of all the rest. It is all i can do, but i am trying here.

 

 

I do have a refund pending.

 

 

 

I still have a refund.............................pending.

 

I just received a refund today (it was pending for 5-6 days). I had only ordered 1 preorder Hurricane CD so the amount was $20.49. Hopefully evryone else will get their refund too.

[gener8tr]

WOW!

 

As stated in a related thread I cannot believe this is happening.

 

I've known Lon for at least 7 years from our duels on ebay in the early days (like 1999). He and I always got along great and even provided each other with a few discs free of charge.

 

My only worry, and I am not necessarily pointing fingers, but if I remember correctly Lon was involved with the ex-wife of none other than Manny Comras. Remember that swindler from back in the day? I never had any problems with her (in fact, I received a couple of really nice titles from ebay a few years ago), but where there's smoke there is fire. Any insight on this.

 

Again, this sucks and I hope Lon is actually as much a victim as everyone else. I'd hate to think otherwise

[Mullethead]

Well, I got $60 back today...still waiting for the other $100...............

 

 

 

JL

[heaven&hell]

Well, I got $60 back today...still waiting for the other $100...............

 

 

 

JL

 

 

 

I got my $67 back today too.

 

Now I can go spend it on cds somewhere else.

[BrianJ8173]

Still waiting on my 41.00

[lizzy]

Still waiting on my $116.20