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CDR's versus Silver Pressed


Jeff
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Ok, so if you guys buy a CD from a record label such as Demon Doll or whoever, do you expect:

 

1. it to be Silver Pressed unless otherwise noted in the description?

or

2. CDR unless otherwise noted?

or

3. it could be either an we are just taking our chances when we buy and we should live with it?

 

Personally, I expect it to be silver pressed unless noted. Am I wrong?

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If I buy a CD, I expect a "real" (i.e. silver pressed) disc.

 

If I'm getting a fake CD, then I better be able to pay for it with play money...

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definitely should be silver pressed, otherwise we can download it for free and burn it away

 

if one want to sell something on CDR, better state it in front, so people won't feel like they're cheated or something like that :)

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Always Silver Pressed if not it should be noted and at the fraction of the cost.

 

I hate that Amazon CDR on demand feature their doing with some releases but at least their stating it upfront.

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Ok, so the reason I asked is I emailed Demon Doll last night after the Rakel Traxx discussion and I didn't think my email was that harsh. I wasn't ticked off, heck I had not checked to see that it was CDR until Geoff mentioned it, my thinking is that they should say it is CDR in the description. Anyway, here is my email to DD, maybe it comes across harsh. Rereading it I maybe could have left the last sentence off and focused more on their descriptions:

 

Hi, So I finally got around to checking out the Rakel Traxx CD I bought from you guys and I see it is a CDR and not a silver pressed CD? I checked to see if I missed that in your description and I don't see it. Plus I find out that Shotgun Records has a silver pressed CD of this. I guess I am trying to say I am not pleased about paying full price for a CDR when I could have gotten silver pressed somewhere else.

 

Here was their reply:

Hi Jeff, Sorry to hear you are not pleased with your CD. We never offered it in the description as silver pressed. We don't invest 2000 dollars in unproven bands, as I am sure you'll notice record companies are going away at an alarming rate, and we will not be one of them- because we run our label in the correct fashion and do not over extend on bands with no track record. Please feel free to order the French version of the record, we will refund your purchase for Rakel Traxx. Also when we have to refund a product that we decribed correctly and never mentioned the word silver pressed, you will no longer be able to place orders from us in the future for any product, all orders will be refunded in 24 hours.

Sorry it has to be this way, but we never offered it as silver pressed and do not need the hassle of complaints over trivial matters that without a shadow of a doubt has been proven that there is no sonic difference from replicated to duplicated. If you are a collector, by all means we encourage that, but at the same time we are looking for customers who are more concerned about the music then process of how it is delivered, eventually there will be no more labels left and you will only be able to enjoy downloads and streaming. We are more then happy to refund the Rakel Traxx purchase but in the future no more orders will be accepted.

 

I sorta had to laugh at this and wanted to share. I never asked for a refund. Based on that response I might boycott them anyway, especially if they refuse to at least list that it is a CDR. How hard is it to do that for your customers?

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But they "never mentioned the word silver pressed". Obviously you should know that if it's not mentioned that it's silver pressed then it's possibly not going to be. Or possibly is going to be. Or possibly pressed on a Ritz cracker.

 

If they want to play that game, they "never mentioned the word CDR", but it was. If that was me I think that would be the last time buying from them.

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"we are looking for customers who are more concerned about the music then process of how it is delivered"

 

I think if you care about music then you care how it is delivered to you - so the statement above is absolute bollocks. I find it's people who don't care much about music that tend to download and accept below standard stuff.

 

If I only cared about the music then I could easily fuckin rip it from a download site, someone else's CD or vinyl or wherever I can get it, then there'd be even less record companies as they'd be bypassed completely - so proper music fans actually caring about quality pressed CDs can assure a record companies survival to an extent more than a CDR would.

 

Personally I don't mind CDR's if they are direct from the band ones (as many smaller bands can't afford silver CDs) or the thing hasn't ever been pressed on silver disc coz it's so obscure - but at the same time the price should reflect that.

 

What I don't understand is how they can justify selling a CDR of it at all if there is an official(?) French release of the CD be it full price or discounted.

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In answering the first question you had Jeff and echoing EVERYONE'S sentiment: if it is not labeled as a CDR it is a silver pressed cd. there should be know question/grey area in this assumption.

 

And as Nick mentioned if it is called out as such, priced appropriately and especially if it band made then I can accept it.

 

Obviously with the response you received from DD they are pulling the ole bait and switch and got very offended and defensive toward you and anyone else who might question what they are doing.

 

Sounds very similar to some other threads regarding another label that practiced this behaviour and was equally as aggressive in their responses when called out on their not so legitimate business practices (this is just a statement of fact/common record if you will not an attack on anyone or anything).

 

I really enjoyed that e-mail you received from them. Sheesh. Very agressive and not a true word in the bunch. "Record labels dropping like flies" and "There is no sonic difference between cdr's and silver pressed cd's." :screwy: What about the shelf life you tools? I like how they :baneed: twice in one e-mail. :) Obviously they have received this complaint in the past.

 

If I recieved that e-mail from anyone I would light them on fire. And now that you have shared it I will go OUT OF MY WAY to help aid them in their demise. Bwaaahaahaa...

 

And your e-mail was not inflamatory in the least.

 

Damn I jsut want to rant on and on and on now. :whistle:

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Oh, we have a good little email war of words going on now. Whoever is on the other end at DDR answering me is a real arrogant prick.

 

Please share...

Yes indeed please do! :popcorn:

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If they don't say its a cd-r then it had better be silver pressed....this is the trouble with CDbaby as you always have to ask before ordering if it is silver pressed or not. And they rarely update the ones that are cd-rs...as for Demondoll, with that kind of attitude they can shove their cd-rs where the sun doesn't shine...

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Ok, well here was my reply to their email. At this point I was a little ticked and dismayed so if you think I was a little harsh or out of line that's fine, but it was intentional. The italics part is the description I copied from their website describing Rakel Traxx.

 

 

Wow, seems like a pretty harsh response to a customer. I didn't think my complaint was that harsh. In addition I would disagree with your perspective on how you advertise your CD's. I think most people, especially collector's like myself that like to actually BUY the CD's of bands we like in order to support the band/lable and encourage more music would EXPECT that CD's are silver pressed unless otherwise noted, NOT the other way around.

Now if you are having a bad day and felt the need to insult a customer I can understand, so let me know.

If that is your stance, I will be sure to post your reply to the music message boards I belong to where there is a fairly decent size customer base worldwide. I know this because I often post announcements of your sales offers, new bands you have that I like, etc. But hey, maybe I won't bother doing that anymore.

And I never mentioned anything about asking for a refund, so keep your money and your lowly threat to deny me future orders.

Man, attitude like that and you will be going away.

Oh and another thing...you don't like to spend money on "unproven bands" yet this is the way you advertise them huh? Gee, sounds like a band you think is pretty darn impressive, not unproven.

 

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So don't miss out and grab a copy from the new regime today

 

Anyway, I will wait today for a response to explain your attitude and if you choose not to that is fine. I will share your policy with everyone.

Yours truly,

A Nobody

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Their attitude is that they dont want to go out of business by silver pressing CD's, but dont think that being rude pricks and banning people for being upset that they have been sold substandard goods, is gonna put them out of business.

We all know how word spreads about small record labels in the melodic rock community, so by having this sort of business attitude will do them no favours.

 

Simple fact is, if I buy direct from a small band, I half expect the CD to be a CDR, and its understandable.

But dont call yourself a record label if you are afraid to silver press CDs.

 

As for there ascertation that a CDR is as good as a silver pressed CD, well thats laughable. We all know that CDR's have a potentially shorter life span than CD's. They would be better off going the download only route, rather than conning people with the whole "We didnt say they were silver pressed" when the truth is what they didnt say was that they are CDR's.

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And here was the response to my email above. I did send a response to this but I forgot to copy myself so unless they respond (they probably won't after what I told them) I won't have that response. Anyway, what I get the biggest laugh out of is the "professional packaging" comment. As Geoff mentioned in the other thread, aside from it being a CDR, the simple fold over insert without lyrics is about as basic as it gets. The other thing is that I am trying to slander them or push them around. I told them I would share their "policy" with the boards, which is Demon Doll will send a CDR or silver pressed, they will not list it on their website, and if you don't like what you get, then they will no longer take your orders. If that sounds like slander to them...well it is THEIR policy! Geesh.

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Don't mean to make feel like a nobody, as per the statement of the record description, we love the band, and have sunk enough money into the product as we felt necessary to get the music out there - we never offered it as silver pressed - enough said. If you want to threaten us in posting to comment boards - be my guest, we won't be pushed around. We have so many releases coming up by bands that were littered on MTV, we are not going anywhere for a long time, we have releases lined up for 2 years. Please check back in in 6 to 12 month, we'll still be here releasing records constantly no matter of any postings or threats. We have appreciated your business in the past, but again we will not be pushed around, we lived here in Hollywood in the 80's and 90's and still live that way today.

 

We are not here to do battle with anyone, so if you feel the need to slander us to your music friends over a CDR (professionally packed by the way) over buying a French record, go ahead, we will not do anything but continue to release music for years to come. If you feel the need to slam us, go for it. We have never had any complaints in 3 years.

 

Thanks

Demon Doll Records

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And here was the response to my email above. I did send a response to this but I forgot to copy myself so unless they respond (they probably won't after what I told them) I won't have that response. Anyway, what I get the biggest laugh out of is the "professional packaging" comment. As Geoff mentioned in the other thread, aside from it being a CDR, the simple fold over insert without lyrics is about as basic as it gets. The other thing is that I am trying to slander them or push them around. I told them I would share their "policy" with the boards, which is Demon Doll will send a CDR or silver pressed, they will not list it on their website, and if you don't like what you get, then they will no longer take your orders. If that sounds like slander to them...well it is THEIR policy! Geesh.

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Don't mean to make feel like a nobody, as per the statement of the record description, we love the band, and have sunk enough money into the product as we felt necessary to get the music out there - we never offered it as silver pressed - enough said. If you want to threaten us in posting to comment boards - be my guest, we won't be pushed around. We have so many releases coming up by bands that were littered on MTV, we are not going anywhere for a long time, we have releases lined up for 2 years. Please check back in in 6 to 12 month, we'll still be here releasing records constantly no matter of any postings or threats. We have appreciated your business in the past, but again we will not be pushed around, we lived here in Hollywood in the 80's and 90's and still live that way today.

 

We are not here to do battle with anyone, so if you feel the need to slander us to your music friends over a CDR (professionally packed by the way) over buying a French record, go ahead, we will not do anything but continue to release music for years to come. If you feel the need to slam us, go for it. We have never had any complaints in 3 years.

 

Thanks

Demon Doll Records

 

 

Man those responses sound so familiar... :popcorn:

 

Bottom line that guy/gal/label is an aggressive jackhole. Deliberately swindling the buying public by ommission. I will certainly enjoy watching the "label" get its just desserts.

 

I'm so glad I can't/don't by new releases or from online stores anymore...to damn risky and why would I want to put money in that douchebags pocket?

 

Demon Doll Records you have been unofficially :baneed: !!

 

Unofficial cause Keith is the official bannee-er.

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The funny thing is I wasn't trying to get all up in their face about the CDR. I had not noticed until Geoff mentioned. But like Wes mentioned above, even Amazon realizes that there is a difference between CDR and silver pressed and they list that when applicable. I think every label should list it if CDR, otherwise I assume silver. And I totally agree that a band putting out their own CD I should not be surprised if I get CDR.

 

So had they responded with "hey Jeff, we will take your comment under consideration, maybe we can add that simple piece of detail to our descriptions but no guarantee's, next time please ask before buying if this is important to you" I would have been fine with that. I didn't want to start something with them. Oh well.

 

If they reply to my final response to them I will post those as well. Happy Days! :cussing:

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Look at it this way. If you sold a CDR on eBay and didnt list it as such, anyone who put a claim against you would win.

Its a little thing called "Full disclosure".

 

You cant get away with saying "We didnt say it was silver pressed", cause by that logic if you bought a car and it had no steering wheel, then the dealer could say "I didnt say it had a steering wheel in the add".

 

Attitudes like these guys will not keep them in business like they claim.

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To answer your question, Jeff, I totally expect a silver-pressed disc when buying a CD online or at a music store, unless otherwise noted, or if its a band-released CDR.

 

That sucks what you had to go through with that 'record label', what bad customer service. They apparently have releases lined up for the next 2 years...or do they have CDR releases lined up for the next 2 years? :wacko:

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To answer your question, Jeff, I totally expect a silver-pressed disc when buying a CD online or at a music store, unless otherwise noted, or if its a band-released CDR.

 

That sucks what you had to go through with that 'record label', what bad customer service. They apparently have releases lined up for the next 2 years...or do they have CDR releases lined up for the next 2 years? :wacko:

 

 

:) Cdr releases :)...

 

Yea, I have a lifetime of upcomming "releases" in the pipe and they are available upon request. Allow 3-5 days for shipping and up to 1 week for "production".

 

Send money order or well hidden $$$$$$ to Sorry Sucker Records, were our modo is if we don't have it we'll make and oh yea screw you!

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Yeah was a harsh and very unnecessary reply to your initial E-Mail. As you say Jeff they could have just been polite and said thanks for your E-Mail and we'll take your feedback into consideration etc. It goes without saying that CDR's are inferior to silver pressed CD's - they don't last long and in fact they don't play on a lot of older CD players, which is a good reason why the label should state that the product is a CDR.

 

As for DD Records, I've never bought from them before but have been meaning to pick up a few titles from them. Based upon that arrogant and defensive reply you received and the ban they have imposed on you they don't sound like a label I want to have anything to do with.

 

It's simple really, if your selling a CDR, state it in the item description like everyone else does, otherwise customers have the right to expect a proper silver pressed CD which will play on all CD players.

 

And Jeff, sorry to hear you've been baned... I know you were a good promotor of some of the bands

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Wow, that is pure craziness. What a tool that guy sounds like. I think your replies are very civil, Jeff.

 

Like everyone else, I agree that if you're selling a CDR you need to let the people know it is a CDR, and appropriately price it that way too. Otherwise, as has been the way for all time, one just assumes they're buying a proper, silver pressed CD.

 

The thing that's really not making sense to me, and like I said in the Rakel Traxx thread, is how they choose what is silver pressed and not. It is a completely random arrangement with Demon Doll as far as I can tell. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Debbie Ray is also a CDR isn't it? I am so infinitely curious as to what makes the bands that are silver pressed on that label more "proven" than the ones that aren't. I wish I had all my Demon Doll CD/CDRs here today to check which was which, but I think most the silver pressed discs are from long defunct bands who never got label backing in the day and only have a bunch of demos or an unreleased CD to bring to the masses.

 

Don't get me wrong, they have some great releases. But a band that split up 20 years ago and only left a bunch of demos behind is not going to generate any more income once that disc is done. Granted, the band may have built an underground name for themselves through the years that die-hards will know about, and hungrily await a CD release. But most people outside of the locality of these old bands, and not into old demo trading probably never knew who they were either. My personal opinion would be to invest the time and effort in the current bands who have potential to continue generating income for the label. Give them the silver pressing, save the CDRs for old demos. I dunno, maybe that's just me. :)

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