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FRICTION - Baby Talk eBay auction


MIKE S

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"Where are the people at when bands are selling their cds directly for big bucks when they have a ton of copies?? I didn't hear anyone bitching at Mark David from Concrete Jungle when he sold his own cds for $120 a piece. Or his CDR EP for $40. I don't hear anyone bitch when the guy from Mistress sells his cds on eBay for big bucks....or Sweet Teaze or the guy from Deja Vu who sold his for $100 a pop. I don't hear you smelling rats in those instances...."

 

Well obviously, this isn't at all the same as what Sam is doing since he's selling brand new re-issues, not original deadstock cd's that have been collecting dust in someone's garage for the past 15 years.  And I hate to say it, but as far as the Friction cd being pressed in quantaties of 100...I wouldn't exactly take that to the bank.  A dutch auction is a super idea, & would go a long way towards Sam not only backing up his previous statements about getting music into the fan's hands, but also repairing his image in the community here at HH.

 

You missed my reasoning behind why I used the analogy of the other sellers. I know it's difficult to read a lengthy passage and understand it completely. But the usage of that analogy was to illustrate that if someone were to be.....and let me say this in a separated way......CHAMPIONING THE CAUSE OF THE FANS.....that they would attack...or go after all of those that were guilty...and not have a selective crusade. And that's why I used that instance.....

 

Secondly, you don't have to take that to the bank....but it is true. 100 First Pressing Reissues. And that's a fact. If you don't believe that...than I'm sorry.

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I was going to stay out of this one, but this is my take. It's not meant to attack anyone here in any way

 

Personally, I think if he does have a certain amout of them pressed, instead of selling them one at a time to keep the prices up there, then maybe he should consider offering them in a dutch auction for 25-50 items at a crack. I feel that would be less deceitful.

 

He's going on the law of Supply And Demand right now. He's the only one with them adn he knows it, so releasing them one at a time, he can let the people battle over them until the end of the auction causing a bidding war and sky high prices. When it's all over, he throws out another bone and they come running. Having a dutch auction seems to be a more honest way of selling them in my opinion.

 

On top of that, I've seen many many reissues come out in the last 5 years of rare cd's, and when a regular label releases them, they usually run them around $15 a crack give or take. The same as any other cd out there.

 

I kind of like the idea of a Dutch auction....at least at first, to determine within a larger magnitude where the pricing should fall.

 

Sorry, but I don't agree with any method of determining 'where the pricing should fall' in this case. I believe that's been done successfully throughout previous DECADES by numerous record labels and artists already. The only thing he could be determining is what HE could possibly get for these discs. While that practice is valid for your average eBay seller, it is not valid OR practical for a 'record label' to operate that way. As stated numerous times previously, that practice benefits neither the band or the consumer. The only person it would benefit is Sam. IF Sam really wants to get this music into the hands of the masses as he has stated in the past, set his price @ $12-$15 a CD (which I'm sure is quite a nice profit for Sam even at that price) as other record labels do, and make your profit in volume, not a per-cd basis.

 

It's perfectly ok for you to feel that way. That is your prerogative....and if it hurts his business then it's of his own doing. But...that IS what he is doing......and it is his business...

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JLPRocks,

 

I'll be honest: I can't make heads or tails of some of the reasoning in that lengthy post. It's not making any sense.

 

Rather than try to address each point and wade through it all, I'll try one last time on a few of the points:

 

1. By deliberately only selling one copy at a time on Ebay, he is not "making these available" as legit labels do. He's intentionally counting on collectors playing against one another to boost the final price. There's not a single legit label out there that operates that way (note: there are plenty of SELLERS that do, but not labels).

 

2. I don't buy the whole "well maybe once he figures things out he'll sell them at a flat rate" notion. That is a cop out. Sam's been doing this for ages, and he knows what his costs are. Instead of talking about what he "might do" the proof is in what he "is doing."

 

3. "Huge cashflow burden" to press the CDs. He owns a CD plant in Russia and it costs him pennies on the dollar to get CDs pressed. He has CDs pressed by the thousands for his run-of-the-mill Ebay sales and all of a sudden THESE reissues will upset the apple cart? He has to sell these for astronomical prices because the pressing costs are too high? Sorry, can't buy it.

 

 

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what you or I think. He'll get his lofty prices, and the bands and fans will be the ultimate losers, because so many more units COULD be sold.

 

Sam's certainly entitled to conduct his business the way he sees fit, and he's definitely successful at it. But don't try and deceive people by calling this endeavor a legitimate record label. A legit label would have set wholesale and retail pricing for its merchandise... it would NOT intentionally have its customers competing with one another to drive up the price.

 

-Dan

 

The discs are being manufactured in Irvine, California.

 

At this point in time though....I'm not so sure that's a good thing though.

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Guess this is one of those topics that just isn't gonna go away. Bottom line is... Sam DOES own Retrospect and that is a fact. Most of what everyone else is throwing out here is pure speculation and uneducated opinions. Although most say that they want to see Sam make this work... my gut tells me most really want him to fail. Guess is comes down to one thing... if you want what he has... it is there to be bought. All the talk here isn't gonna change the fact that Sam is if nothing else giving people a chance to get ahold of some previously unattainable music. Before these discs were re-released, you couldn't get them.... now... Retrospect has given everyone at least a chance to own these. I don't plan on entering another post here in this thread.

 

Last thing.... Good luck to Sam and Retrospect Records. :banger:

 

~ Dave ~

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can anyone confirm if the friction - baby talk cd reissue is genuine because according band members they are against the reissue, so where does this leave fans, obviously buying cd bootlegs of the friction cd against the bands will. friction - baby talk = bootleg, alyze is legit and so it seems for toy roz.

 

:band:

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can anyone confirm if the friction - baby talk cd reissue is genuine because according band members they are against the reissue, so where does this leave fans, obviously buying cd bootlegs of the friction cd against the bands will. friction - baby talk = bootleg, alyze is legit and so it seems for toy roz.

 

:band:

 

Maybe you should ask Sam.....at this point in time, anything is possible.

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can anyone confirm if the friction - baby talk cd reissue is genuine because according band members they are against the reissue, so where does this leave fans, obviously buying cd bootlegs of the friction cd against the bands will. friction - baby talk = bootleg

:band:

 

Here we go again.............................. Seatbelts anyone? :blink:

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Well i can tell you guys this much -- talking with Sam , he is letting me know that there are certain folks here at HH that he could give a "f**k less if they ever get a hold of his Retrospect label discs" - so some of you here on HH [and you know who you are] , i wouldn't count on ever being able to purchase any of these mega rarities directly from Sam or his website. Ain't gonna happen. I guess thats the beauty of owning your own business / label -- you sell your product how you want to who you want. If you don't like the way Sam runs his label and business ethics then move on and take your money elsewhere.

Right now Sam is starting off his auctions at 99 cents so you COULD actually get the cd BELOW COST. He is offering that chance - which to me is an even better deal than doing $14.99 BIN's. I know Sam is doing some trial runs right now on his first pressings and doing what he can to recoop his initial costs but eventually i am sure the majority of these discs will be available for purchase thru the Retrospect website in a few months once all of the cd's are in.

These cd's are NOT being pressed in Russia [contrary to K.S.'s belief] and some of these recordings are even being remastered for superior sound quality!!

I knew it wouldn't take long before a thread would be run on Sam's label here on HH and the sour grapes just grow rampant here - which i expected.

Nuff said for now.....

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sam has this elite thing going on and its a shame coz the stuff he has out and will put out are true gems. the boots are hurting the collectors scene but the legit reissues are fantastic! :band:

 

it seems every suncity release is legit and shouldnt that be the way these things are done and i wish there is no competition between suncity and retropect because these labels put out great stuff, blue tears demos album and the new album is a pick of the litter so far of the 2 labels.

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Well i can tell you guys this much -- talking with Sam , he is letting me know that there are certain folks here at HH that he could give a "f**k less if they ever get a hold of his Retrospect label discs" - so some of you here on HH [and you know who you are] , i wouldn't count on ever being able to purchase any of these mega rarities directly from Sam or his website. Ain't gonna happen. I guess thats the beauty of owning your own business / label -- you sell your product how you want to who you want. If you don't like the way Sam runs his label and business ethics then move on and take your money elsewhere.

Right now Sam is starting off his auctions at 99 cents so you COULD actually get the cd BELOW COST.  He is offering that chance - which to me is an even better deal than doing $14.99 BIN's. I know Sam is doing some trial runs right now on his first pressings and doing what he can to recoop his initial costs but eventually i am sure the majority of these discs will be available for purchase thru the Retrospect website in a few months once all of the cd's are in.

These cd's are NOT being pressed in Russia [contrary to K.S.'s belief] and some of these recordings are even being remastered for superior sound quality!!

I knew it wouldn't take long before a thread would be run on Sam's label here on HH and the sour grapes just grow rampant here - which i expected.

Nuff said for now.....

 

 

....once again showing that the music is not being put out for the fans...........when he can pick and choose who buys them. By the way, it wouldn't be that hard to obtain the cd's from him without him knowing it is someone on this site. :)

 

Like I said before, yes I am skeptical but I hope it is legit and I hope it succeeds....

 

 

JL

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If you had Russian connections and could print up CDs for pennies a piece in Russia, why would you turn around and press them for many times that much in Irvine, California? Makes no sense. Does Tommy Hilfiger shut down its Singapore sweat shops to hire American workers at American minimum wage?

 

I don't buy that. I think you just opened your Rand-McNally road atlas and picked the first city you saw.

 

And another thing I don't like. JLP acting as Sam's "press secretary". Is Sam THAT jet-lagged from his flight back from Russia that he can't pull up a highchair next to his laptop and post for himself like a big boy?

 

Man up, Sammy. Less JLP, more from the source please.

 

I'm willing to buy into the theory of a legitimate label. The trusty "Al Bundy" label doing those Streets reissues a few years back told me that if I see a label on the disc, it's gotta be legit, right? But I can't believe that any label owner who claims he is about the fans and the music, then turns around and plays the demand-over-supply card as blatantly as selling exclusively on eBay is about anything less than greed/opportunism/sniffing my wallet.

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And another thing I don't like. JLP acting as Sam's "press secretary". Is Sam THAT jet-lagged from his flight back from Russia that he can't pull up a highchair next to his laptop and post for himself like a big boy?

 

Man up, Sammy. Less JLP, more from the source please.

 

In all fairness, Sam cannot post, because I banned him after the last fiasco. Given his propensity to spew venom and filth, I'm not likely to rescind that ban.

 

Anyway, he's got plenty of mouthpieces speaking here on his behalf.

 

Sam can do whatever he wants to whomever he wants. His actions speak for themselves. EOD.

 

-Dan

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If you had Russian connections and could print up CDs for pennies a piece in Russia, why would you turn around and press them for many times that much in Irvine, California? Makes no sense. Does Tommy Hilfiger shut down its Singapore sweat shops to hire American workers at American minimum wage?

 

I don't buy that. I think you just opened your Rand-McNally road atlas and picked the first city you saw.

 

And another thing I don't like. JLP acting as Sam's "press secretary". Is Sam THAT jet-lagged from his flight back from Russia that he can't pull up a highchair next to his laptop and post for himself like a big boy?

 

Man up, Sammy. Less JLP, more from the source please.

 

I'm willing to buy into the theory of a legitimate label. The trusty "Al Bundy" label doing those Streets reissues a few years back told me that if I see a label on the disc, it's gotta be legit, right? But I can't believe that any label owner who claims he is about the fans and the music, then turns around and plays the demand-over-supply card as blatantly as selling exclusively on eBay is about anything less than greed/opportunism/sniffing my wallet.

 

Actually, what this post goes to show....is that you guys REALLY do not know Sam. And I think a lot of you give him more credit than he is due.

 

He does have connections to the Russian labels. I would think that is quite obvious by the Russian pressings that he auctions off in his eBay auctions. But, he doesn't own a pressing plant, nor does he think it's more cost effective to have them pressed there.

 

Yeah....seems uncomprehensible doesn't it?! But it's true.....

 

Oddly enough, Sam's using Joe Dolan's advice on where to get his cds manufactured. And that just goes to show you how little you jackasses really know.

 

I'll let Sam's brother...or whoever else.....to explain what I just posted. For most of you, I shouldn't have to post another word and you'll know what I mean.

 

I've had just about enough of this whole mess with Sam....and you jackasses who don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

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JLPRocks,

 

You've stepped over the line now. Everyone was keeping the tone, if not hugs and kisses, at least civil. Now you've started in with namecalling. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear Sam was posting using your username. It's exactly the type of tone he would post with.

 

When you start in with the "you jackasses..." you're painting a lot of people with that brush.

 

As I tried explaining to Sam, and he never could comprehend, people can disagree strongly without resorting to profanity and schoolyard namecalling. If that's the approach you wish to take, so be it, but it will be elsewhere.

 

Ok?

 

-Dan

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JLPRocks,

 

You've stepped over the line now. Everyone was keeping the tone, if not hugs and kisses, at least civil. Now you've started in with namecalling. If I didn't know any better, I'd swear Sam was posting using your username. It's exactly the type of tone he would post with.

 

When you start in with the "you jackasses..." you're painting a lot of people with that brush.

 

As I tried explaining to Sam, and he never could comprehend, people can disagree strongly without resorting to profanity and schoolyard namecalling. If that's the approach you wish to take, so be it, but it will be elsewhere.

 

Ok?

 

-Dan

 

Let me first apologise for crossing over the message board etiquette of this website. It's not my intention to do so......

 

But there is another form of being civil. And it goes beyond namecalling. It's using libelous statements and the use of heresay. Of which, you...yourself, addressed when saying that Sam had 'factories in Russia'. As did Koogles. Those statements...while not overtly horrendous in their use of language still induce the same affect to those they are intended as if someone were to use 'bad language', as in namecalling.

 

I'm not some 15 year old child who is aimlessly discussing this situation and needing to make my point with 'bad language'. I'm a degreed professional with a background in owning and operating a multi-million dollar Engineering and Construction firm in Houston. But there is a point at which the rediculousness of the statements being made are causing the ire in me to increase to a level where I used that language. And for that, I do apologise.

 

I've been a member and financially contributing member of this website since its inception. I intend to continue doing so, and hopefully adding insight into unheard music, knowlege, etc. to the members who care to listen.

 

I've provided true and accurate information regarding any situation with which I have contributed.

 

One thing must be clear here. I'm not out to play games.

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One thing must be clear here. I'm not out to play games.

 

Not even, like Parcheesi or Backgammon, or tiddly-winks?

 

:banana:

 

:lol: You.......hahaha...ok...maybe backgammon!!! :lol:

 

5:00 will not come soon enough!!! :lol:

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If Friction members are against a re-issue, does it mean that it has been re-released without their consent?

 

That's the part that I don't like. If the band says they don't want it reissued, then Sam shouldn't be going against their wishes and do it anyway, no matter how rare the cd is. This is the type of situation which makes me wonder if he just has a stack of rare cd's being printed up and going to release them no matter what the bands want, or if they even know they're being rereleased. It's like he's doing it first and waiting to see if he gets caught. Not a good way to start off a record label.

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Way too many cats calling the kettle black.....

By the way, MelodicRockOz who posted that FRICTION were not "for re-issuing their cd" was an out and out lie and just a way to stir up more trouble - Not Cool.

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Way too many cats calling the kettle black.....

By the way, MelodicRockOz who posted that FRICTION were not "for re-issuing their cd" was an out and out lie and just a way to stir up more trouble - Not Cool.

 

 

recordjnky, there's a few people on hh who have spoken to the guys in friction and tell me which one of them gave sam approval for the reissue? did sam repress the friction cd from the master or a cdr? i know more about this than you think but i hope i am wrong. i'd love to see a legit reissue but sam's reissue is proving otherwise and has tarnished the retrospect records name forever

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Way too many cats calling the kettle black.....

By the way, MelodicRockOz who posted that FRICTION were not "for re-issuing their cd" was an out and out lie and just a way to stir up more trouble - Not Cool.

 

 

recordjnky, there's a few people on hh who have spoken to the guys in friction and tell me which one of them gave sam approval for the reissue? did sam repress the friction cd from the master or a cdr? i know more about this than you think but i hope i am wrong. i'd love to see a legit reissue but sam's reissue is proving otherwise and has tarnished the retrospect records name forever

 

David, for someone who has taken in a bunch of advance money for apparent cd's that still have not seen the light of day, i think its a bit rich for you to say the Retrospect label has been tarnished -- i think you need to worry about keeping your Suncity label from being untarnished.....

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I don't know much about either of these labels, but isn't everybody jumping the gun a little bit? As for David and Suncity, it's a new company people. Sometimes there are kinks to work out. Things don't always go as planned and deadlines aren't always met. As for Sam and Retrospect, wait and see. Maybe he does fall flat on his face. Maybe he rips everyone off. Who knows? We don't. If he does do something wrong, then jump his shit. In either case we could have 1 maybe 2 labels releasing the music we all love. That's a good thing.

 

David's cds are taking a little longer than he said. They are the first he's released. Trial and error people. Sam is only selling his through Ebay. That may be the outlet he has right now. Jim clearly stated that will more than likely change when the Website is up and running. Isn't it a little early to dump on these guys? I will grant you that Sam has rubbed a lot of people here the wrong way, me included. Maybe I am one of those people he won't sell to. Let's wait and see how things go. Yes both of them have something to prove. Honesty says they are competitors. Whether they admit it or not, they want to fight for the better releases. But in the long run, this is good for the music, and the fans. This bickering just seems like a waste of time.

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ok here is a post directly from SAM - if Dan has a problem with me posting comments from Sam then let me know and i will cease to post them as i don't particularly want to be banned from this site.

 

Hello , well I expected to see some skepticism , second-guessing , speculation and downright lies coming from the infamous Heavy Hypocrites site. If anyone has any questions or concerns regarding my official releases then why don't you email them to ME directly instead of getting it wrong. The bottom line is , I am not like every other label....I am a MUSICIAN'S label designed to maximize profits for those who deserve it. Will they be at a fixed price? Eventually yes.....but I may decide to only offer them directly through me on my Ebay page so some of you will never get your hands on them as some of you are blocked from ever bidding on my stuff....Why would I want to sell to a bunch of guys who have been nothing but negative and ignorant about my desire to make certain oop releases available to the public for the FIRST time? You know who you are.

 

So , now i own a factory in Russia?? HAHAHAHAH that's the best one yet. I had a conversation with PJ a couple of years ago when we were considering joining force that an offer had been made for me to buy a factory there.....I did not follow through....why would i own a factory in a place where i cannot even speak the language?? No No No. There are bigger fish to fry.

 

David , your lies and downright jealousy will prove your undoing for Sun City. This is a guy who's taken an undetermined amount for PRE-ORDERS (I will never do that) and hasn't sent anybody SQUAT. Worry about your own back porch brother. This is a guy who talks civil to me through emails and yet stabs me in the back on this site......nice way to do biz bro.

 

Wanna know what's coming out through Retrospect??....guess you'll have to wait and see....but I'm sure if you travel down Rock Boulevard you'll see a Vyper Prepared To Strike , but that would be a Wicked Teaze.

 

Questions - ASK ME DIRECTLY THROUGH www.retrospectrecords.com and STOP the B.S.

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Nothing new there. Same ole' Sam stuff.

 

It's getting old now.

 

JLPRocks and Recordjnky, I'm going to respectfully request that you no longer post on Sam's behalf here. It's the same old namecalling and childish "I won't let you guys buy my CDs because you're not nice", just routed through you instead of him posting it.

 

This discussion serves no purpose other than to give him free publicity, and he doesn't deserve it.

 

-Dan

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