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FRICTION - Baby Talk eBay auction


MIKE S

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To be honest, you guys should be checkin' out those Alyze discs! Those kick ass!!

 

I mean, the Friction is great.....and all the hoopla, blah, blah, blah, behind it..and we all know that, but I promise you....you will not be disappointed in Alyze.

 

 

 

To be honest with you-I have no idea how they sound, but Friction.....tested by time. I have been listening to my CDR for the past year almost every day and can't be bored.

Well, Alyze will be in my list of next purchases, right after Friction.

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Joe Dolan of Retrospect Records sold his business to Vegas Metal because of a few troubles in his family. Now I think we all know that Vegas Metal has some very strange ways of doing business. So if I were you I would definately bid on his stuff with caution!!!

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Joe Dolan of Retrospect Records sold his business to Vegas Metal because of a few troubles in his family.  Now I think we all know that Vegas Metal has some very strange ways of doing business.  So if I were you I would definately bid on his stuff with caution!!!

 

.....with caution??

 

I think it would have looked better on your character David if you would have come out and said that you wished Retrospect all the best because that label is doing the same thing Suncity is...and that is providing rare discs to the fans.

 

Instead, your comment makes you look like a jealous competitor.............and, truth be told, it looks like Retrospect certainly beat Suncity to the punch when releasing their product. After all...they say that the 'proof is in the pudding'....and, unfortunately, we have yet to taste yours.....

 

But I wish you all success in the world, because that only means more unheard of titles for the masses......

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Hi,

just a quick update on the RETROSPECT label and my brother's involvement in the company. Sam has in fact bought out the label and is president of it. He is scheduling to release over 100 of the rarest AOR, hard rock and metal cd's in these first 3 months with many many more to come. Some of these will no doubt be very limited edition pressings and will only be exclusively available thru him. Although I will possibly be listing some of these in my ebay auctions in the future also. Some of the titles will literally blow you away as some of these have never ever been released on cd before and some you would never thought you would see on cd again!!

This is the beginning of something very exciting -- and will allow rock and metal fans worldwide to hear some of this rare awesome music for the first time.

On a side note I hope to be doing some other rare AOR re-releases in the near future including stuff like All Sports Band, American Noise, Avion and others...

 

Keep it rockin'!!

Recordjnky [Dan]

 

--ISA. 38:20--

 

 

 

So assuming everything's legit, when and where can any of these be purchased? :lol:

 

Thanks

JL

 

As legit as can be.....

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I know Sam and I know Joe well.

 

Joe helped me out getting my Record Label up and running and I can't thank him enough for that!! I just have a few issues with the way Sam does business fo example: He re-issues these great cd's without telling the bands and once the bands find out and approach him he then starts giving them royalties. I would have thought you would approach the bands first?? He also sells his cd's without telling the fans that they are really re-issues.

 

I like these cd's as much as anyone including you James, but I'm running my business totally above board so I would have thought I could bring this issue to the table.

 

By the way no it all, Retrospect Records are NOT my competitor. He is doing re-issues and I'm releasing un-released material.

 

Get a clue James before opening your mouth!!

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I know Sam and I know Joe well.

 

Joe helped me out getting my Record Label up and running and I can't thank him enough for that!!  I just have a few issues with the way Sam does business fo example:  He re-issues these great cd's without telling the bands and once the bands find out and approach him he then starts giving them royalties.  I would have thought you would approach the bands first??  He also sells his cd's without telling the fans that they are really re-issues.

 

I like these cd's as much as anyone including you James, but I'm running my business totally above board so I would have thought I could bring this issue to the table.

 

By the way no it all, Retrospect Records are NOT my competitor.  He is doing re-issues and I'm releasing un-released material. 

 

Get a clue James before opening your mouth!!

 

Maybe you should get a clue....the Alyze EP "Afraid of the Dark" has never been issued prior to this pressing......EVER.....

 

And...believe me....Retrospect IS your competitor. Was it not YOU who was just the other day inquiring about how to get the contact info for Toy Roz in one of our very own threads here at Heavy Harmonies??? Yeah....I thought so.......jackass.....

 

When it comes to me.....Davey boy....I would suggest you just keep a tight lip. Or you'll lose every time......now go and get your damn discs out and quit wasting people's time and energy.

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I know Sam and I know Joe well.

 

Joe helped me out getting my Record Label up and running and I can't thank him enough for that!!  I just have a few issues with the way Sam does business fo example:  He re-issues these great cd's without telling the bands and once the bands find out and approach him he then starts giving them royalties.  I would have thought you would approach the bands first??  He also sells his cd's without telling the fans that they are really re-issues.

 

I like these cd's as much as anyone including you James, but I'm running my business totally above board so I would have thought I could bring this issue to the table.

 

By the way no it all, Retrospect Records are NOT my competitor.  He is doing re-issues and I'm releasing un-released material. 

 

Get a clue James before opening your mouth!!

 

Maybe you should get a clue....the Alyze EP "Afraid of the Dark" has never been issued prior to this pressing......EVER.....

 

And...believe me....Retrospect IS your competitor. Was it not YOU who was just the other day inquiring about how to get the contact info for Toy Roz in one of our very own threads here at Heavy Harmonies??? Yeah....I thought so.......jackass.....

 

When it comes to me.....Davey boy....I would suggest you just keep a tight lip. Or you'll lose every time......now go and get your damn discs out and quit wasting people's time and energy.

 

 

this is a funny post, dave will you be going to the u.k to see blue tears live?

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I know Sam and I know Joe well.

 

Joe helped me out getting my Record Label up and running and I can't thank him enough for that!!  I just have a few issues with the way Sam does business fo example:  He re-issues these great cd's without telling the bands and once the bands find out and approach him he then starts giving them royalties.  I would have thought you would approach the bands first??  He also sells his cd's without telling the fans that they are really re-issues.

 

I like these cd's as much as anyone including you James, but I'm running my business totally above board so I would have thought I could bring this issue to the table.

 

By the way no it all, Retrospect Records are NOT my competitor.  He is doing re-issues and I'm releasing un-released material. 

 

Get a clue James before opening your mouth!!

 

And how would you know if Sam just plans on doing re-issues...? You just may be surprised what Sam has in store... Just wait and see.... :dance:

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I know Sam and I know Joe well.

 

Joe helped me out getting my Record Label up and running and I can't thank him enough for that!!  I just have a few issues with the way Sam does business fo example:  He re-issues these great cd's without telling the bands and once the bands find out and approach him he then starts giving them royalties.  I would have thought you would approach the bands first??  He also sells his cd's without telling the fans that they are really re-issues.

 

I like these cd's as much as anyone including you James, but I'm running my business totally above board so I would have thought I could bring this issue to the table.

 

By the way no it all, Retrospect Records are NOT my competitor.  He is doing re-issues and I'm releasing un-released material. 

 

Get a clue James before opening your mouth!!

 

And how would you know if Sam just plans on doing re-issues...? You just may be surprised what Sam has in store... Just wait and see.... :dance:

 

Because LV...these Australian guys are psychic!

 

The simple fact of the matter is...that Retrospect is going to release new issues...re-issues...and very possibly, new complete albums by bands....

 

Like I always say.....the 'proof is in the pudding'......and what's that other common saying....oh yeah...'actions speak louder than words'...... :)

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I know Sam and I know Joe well.

 

Joe helped me out getting my Record Label up and running and I can't thank him enough for that!!  I just have a few issues with the way Sam does business fo example:  He re-issues these great cd's without telling the bands and once the bands find out and approach him he then starts giving them royalties.  I would have thought you would approach the bands first??  He also sells his cd's without telling the fans that they are really re-issues.

 

I like these cd's as much as anyone including you James, but I'm running my business totally above board so I would have thought I could bring this issue to the table.

 

By the way no it all, Retrospect Records are NOT my competitor.  He is doing re-issues and I'm releasing un-released material. 

 

Get a clue James before opening your mouth!!

 

And how would you know if Sam just plans on doing re-issues...? You just may be surprised what Sam has in store... Just wait and see.... :dance:

 

Because LV...these Australian guys are psychic!

 

The simple fact of the matter is...that Retrospect is going to release new issues...re-issues...and very possibly, new complete albums by bands....

 

Like I always say.....the 'proof is in the pudding'......and what's that other common saying....oh yeah...'actions speak louder than words'...... :)

 

 

Well, no offense to either of you but we have not heard ANYTHING from either company. Sure Sam has a couple up for auction but when will we be able to purchase these cd's at a reasonable price from a website other than Ebay?

 

Don't get me wrong because I hope both companies succeed because it's all good things for the hard rock comm. But if proof is in the pudding I'm on a diet because I haven't seen or heard or been able to purchase anything from either person.

 

Time will tell I suppose...

 

Later

JL

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I know Sam and I know Joe well.

 

Joe helped me out getting my Record Label up and running and I can't thank him enough for that!!  I just have a few issues with the way Sam does business fo example:  He re-issues these great cd's without telling the bands and once the bands find out and approach him he then starts giving them royalties.  I would have thought you would approach the bands first??  He also sells his cd's without telling the fans that they are really re-issues.

 

I like these cd's as much as anyone including you James, but I'm running my business totally above board so I would have thought I could bring this issue to the table.

 

By the way no it all, Retrospect Records are NOT my competitor.  He is doing re-issues and I'm releasing un-released material. 

 

Get a clue James before opening your mouth!!

 

And how would you know if Sam just plans on doing re-issues...? You just may be surprised what Sam has in store... Just wait and see.... :dance:

 

Because LV...these Australian guys are psychic!

 

The simple fact of the matter is...that Retrospect is going to release new issues...re-issues...and very possibly, new complete albums by bands....

 

Like I always say.....the 'proof is in the pudding'......and what's that other common saying....oh yeah...'actions speak louder than words'...... :)

 

 

Well, no offense to either of you but we have not heard ANYTHING from either company. Sure Sam has a couple up for auction but when will we be able to purchase these cd's at a reasonable price from a website other than Ebay?

 

Don't get me wrong because I hope both companies succeed because it's all good things for the hard rock comm. But if proof is in the pudding I'm on a diet because I haven't seen or heard or been able to purchase anything from either person.

 

Time will tell I suppose...

 

Later

JL

 

Well....as you well know, they're listed on eBay. So, I would say that's getting started....wouldn't you say? You could start off buy buying the ones you see on eBay. So, I wouldn't say you haven't been able to purchase anything. Hell...the Alyze discs...the last time I looked were only a couple of dollars.

 

As for the buying them from a website. Well...I'm sure that will happen once the website is finished.

 

But I agree....once you hear and see those in your hands, you can be as skeptical as you'd like.

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I know Sam and I know Joe well.

 

Joe helped me out getting my Record Label up and running and I can't thank him enough for that!!  I just have a few issues with the way Sam does business fo example:  He re-issues these great cd's without telling the bands and once the bands find out and approach him he then starts giving them royalties.  I would have thought you would approach the bands first??  He also sells his cd's without telling the fans that they are really re-issues.

 

I like these cd's as much as anyone including you James, but I'm running my business totally above board so I would have thought I could bring this issue to the table.

 

By the way no it all, Retrospect Records are NOT my competitor.  He is doing re-issues and I'm releasing un-released material. 

 

Get a clue James before opening your mouth!!

 

And how would you know if Sam just plans on doing re-issues...? You just may be surprised what Sam has in store... Just wait and see.... :dance:

 

Because LV...these Australian guys are psychic!

 

The simple fact of the matter is...that Retrospect is going to release new issues...re-issues...and very possibly, new complete albums by bands....

 

Like I always say.....the 'proof is in the pudding'......and what's that other common saying....oh yeah...'actions speak louder than words'...... :)

 

 

Well, no offense to either of you but we have not heard ANYTHING from either company. Sure Sam has a couple up for auction but when will we be able to purchase these cd's at a reasonable price from a website other than Ebay?

 

Don't get me wrong because I hope both companies succeed because it's all good things for the hard rock comm. But if proof is in the pudding I'm on a diet because I haven't seen or heard or been able to purchase anything from either person.

 

Time will tell I suppose...

 

Later

JL

 

Well....as you well know, they're listed on eBay. So, I would say that's getting started....wouldn't you say? You could start off buy buying the ones you see on eBay. So, I wouldn't say you haven't been able to purchase anything. Hell...the Alyze discs...the last time I looked were only a couple of dollars.

 

As for the buying them from a website. Well...I'm sure that will happen once the website is finished.

 

But I agree....once you hear and see those in your hands, you can be as skeptical as you'd like.

 

I think it's awesome that these discs are being released, BUT like I mentioned earlier, since they're official new releases, I want them to be sold at reasonable prices and not strictly by auctions on eBay. I feel that's unfair to both the consumer AND the bands. If and when they're available for general purchase, I'll be buying them all. Until then, people can bid $50+ on the Friction CD on eBay, but it won't be me.

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I think it's awesome that these discs are being released, BUT like I mentioned earlier, since they're official new releases, I want them to be sold at reasonable prices and not strictly by auctions on eBay.  I feel that's unfair to both the consumer AND the bands.  If and when they're available for general purchase, I'll be buying them all.  Until then, people can bid $50+ on the Friction CD on eBay, but it won't be me.

 

Agree 100%. Until these are available somewhere for outright purchase at an advertised flat rate price, it's the same old shit. It's not doing anyone any good except lining Sam's pockets at the expense of the fans.

 

If I start seeing them at NEH Records, or AOR Heaven, or Schmankerl, or Perris, or on Ebay with $14.99 BINs, then I'll retract the above.

 

Until then it smells like a rat.

 

-Dan

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I think it's awesome that these discs are being released, BUT like I mentioned earlier, since they're official new releases, I want them to be sold at reasonable prices and not strictly by auctions on eBay.  I feel that's unfair to both the consumer AND the bands.  If and when they're available for general purchase, I'll be buying them all.  Until then, people can bid $50+ on the Friction CD on eBay, but it won't be me.

 

Agree 100%. Until these are available somewhere for outright purchase at an advertised flat rate price, it's the same old shit. It's not doing anyone any good except lining Sam's pockets at the expense of the fans.

 

If I start seeing them at NEH Records, or AOR Heaven, or Schmankerl, or Perris, or on Ebay with $14.99 BINs, then I'll retract the above.

 

Until then it smells like a rat.

 

-Dan

 

"At the expense of the fans".....where are you when the many eBay sellers who have 50 or 100 copies of a certain bands cd and they only list 1 a month in their auctions.....or do their clandestine trades for high dollar cds when they, in fact, have a ton of copies?? I could name off many eBay sellers who do that...and I bet you could too.

 

Where are the people at when bands are selling their cds directly for big bucks when they have a ton of copies?? I didn't hear anyone bitching at Mark David from Concrete Jungle when he sold his own cds for $120 a piece. Or his CDR EP for $40. I don't hear anyone bitch when the guy from Mistress sells his cds on eBay for big bucks....or Sweet Teaze or the guy from Deja Vu who sold his for $100 a pop. I don't hear you smelling rats in those instances....

 

I guess the only way most of you will think anything is legit is if the band's contract is posted for all of you to see so that all of the selective 'sheriff's' will make sure they're getting their due, eh?? One of the very moderators of this message board has been in contact from one of the guys in Alyze and knows that Retrospect is legit and so are the Alyze releases....but I guess that is just not enough for some.

 

While I agree that a common price should be the 'way to go', I find it interesting that if the auctioned cds only go for $9 that that would upset you. And after checking on his auctions, that just may be the case.

 

I mean....Delbert, PJ and many other sellers often use the phrase, 'let the market determine what the value of a cd is".....and I don't hear any complaining.

 

And, let me reiterate...that, I too, would like to see a common fixed price for his releases. And I'll venture a guess that once everything is up and running that you will.....but...if not, then whoever doesn't like what he's doing will do without. And if his business suffers...then it will have been of his own valition.

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You're missing the point.

 

A private party doing this with a hoard of discs they obtained back in the day is one thing. A record label doing this with NEW RELEASES is dirty pool.

 

And yes, it is at the fans' expense.

 

While I agree that a common price should be the 'way to go', I find it interesting that if the auctioned cds only go for $9 that that would upset you.

 

Come again. Where did I say it would upset me?

 

I know you're the officially annointed SamDefender™ here on the board, but please stop trying to compare PJ or Del selling used single CDs and letting the market set the price, with a (supposedly) legit label using the same approach for new releases. It is NOT the same.

 

If you read back through Sam's very own comments here, he kept going on about how his bootlegs were all for the fans, and that it was important for the music to be available to those who want it, etc. Now, when push comes to shove he's using a selling approach that maximizes the dollar in his pocket and minimizes availability to the fans.

 

Which is it?

 

-Dan

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I think it's awesome that these discs are being released, BUT like I mentioned earlier, since they're official new releases, I want them to be sold at reasonable prices and not strictly by auctions on eBay.  I feel that's unfair to both the consumer AND the bands.  If and when they're available for general purchase, I'll be buying them all.  Until then, people can bid $50+ on the Friction CD on eBay, but it won't be me.

 

Agree 100%. Until these are available somewhere for outright purchase at an advertised flat rate price, it's the same old shit. It's not doing anyone any good except lining Sam's pockets at the expense of the fans.

 

If I start seeing them at NEH Records, or AOR Heaven, or Schmankerl, or Perris, or on Ebay with $14.99 BINs, then I'll retract the above.

 

Until then it smells like a rat.

 

-Dan

 

"At the expense of the fans".....where are you when the many eBay sellers who have 50 or 100 copies of a certain bands cd and they only list 1 a month in their auctions.....or do their clandestine trades for high dollar cds when they, in fact, have a ton of copies?? I could name off many eBay sellers who do that...and I bet you could too.

 

Where are the people at when bands are selling their cds directly for big bucks when they have a ton of copies?? I didn't hear anyone bitching at Mark David from Concrete Jungle when he sold his own cds for $120 a piece. Or his CDR EP for $40. I don't hear anyone bitch when the guy from Mistress sells his cds on eBay for big bucks....or Sweet Teaze or the guy from Deja Vu who sold his for $100 a pop. I don't hear you smelling rats in those instances....

 

I guess the only way most of you will think anything is legit is if the band's contract is posted for all of you to see so that all of the selective 'sheriff's' will make sure they're getting their due, eh?? One of the very moderators of this message board has been in contact from one of the guys in Alyze and knows that Retrospect is legit and so are the Alyze releases....but I guess that is just not enough for some.

 

While I agree that a common price should be the 'way to go', I find it interesting that if the auctioned cds only go for $9 that that would upset you. And after checking on his auctions, that just may be the case.

 

I mean....Delbert, PJ and many other sellers often use the phrase, 'let the market determine what the value of a cd is".....and I don't hear any complaining.

 

And, let me reiterate...that, I too, would like to see a common fixed price for his releases. And I'll venture a guess that once everything is up and running that you will.....but...if not, then whoever doesn't like what he's doing will do without. And if his business suffers...then it will have been of his own valition.

 

Jim,

 

I'm not saying that I expect Retrospect to not be legit. Hell, I really hope it is. All I'm saying is that, if these discs are being released by the bands, wouldn't you think the band would want them to be available to EVERYBODY to purchase at ANYTIME, and not once a month at a higher profit for Sam and NOT the band? The examples you state about bands selling their own stuff on eBay is quite different, as it's remaining out-of-print material of their own. If these are being re-released (or released for the first time), wouldn't you expect there to be as many copies as the label wants to produce to get it into the hands of the consumer, and benefit the BAND? I mean, what if MTM, Escape, etc... all released their stuff only on eBay? How does that benefit the band at all? Okay, they get royalties for 1 copy a month while the seller makes a bundle on each? See what I mean?

 

Again, I repeat, I HOPE that's not the case as I want to purchase these releases through normal sources. IF it is, then I don't believe Retrospect will be in business long as there's no way bands would continue to want their material released this way.

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You're missing the point.

 

A private party doing this with a hoard of discs they obtained back in the day is one thing. A record label doing this with NEW RELEASES is dirty pool.

 

And yes, it is at the fans' expense.

 

While I agree that a common price should be the 'way to go', I find it interesting that if the auctioned cds only go for $9 that that would upset you.

 

Come again. Where did I say it would upset me?

 

I know you're the officially annointed SamDefender here on the board, but please stop trying to compare PJ or Del selling used single CDs and letting the market set the price, with a (supposedly) legit label using the same approach for new releases. It is NOT the same.

 

If you read back through Sam's very own comments here, he kept going on about how his bootlegs were all for the fans, and that it was important for the music to be available to those who want it, etc. Now, when push comes to shove he's using a selling approach that maximizes the dollar in his pocket and minimizes availability to the fans.

 

Which is it?

 

-Dan

 

Actually, and I've already explained this to others who have contacted me, what I believe he has done is that he was very unsure at what price to list those cds. He pressed most...not sure if all....of them in a quantity of 100 each. And

 

Actually....and I've already explained this to others who have contacted me....what I believe Sam has done is that he was ver unsure as to what price he should set these releases at. Yes...it is a label...and they are new releases...but they are also only going to be issued in limited quantities from what he has indicated. I believe that the Friction and others were only pressed in quantities of 100......should he then be relegated to listing them at $14.99 a piece because that's what most labels do?? Maybe his contract with the bands are set up differently than most....?? I don't know.?? Sam wants to reissue in upwards of 25 or 30 titles by years end. To press 500 of each of those...or more would be huge cashflow burden. And...it seems we've evidenced a bit of that by the new upstart label Suncity by them taking preorders. I have a good inclination that that is what they've done to get started and that is why some of their material is just getting underway to be issued. I could be wrong here...but it makes damn good sense.

 

And, yes...it IS fair to bring up other sellers, transactions or bands that have done..or are doing...similar things where the cause you are championing could have been brought up by yourself to decry the nature of their selling practices...but you didn't. Why?? It sounds like a personal issue to me. If you're going to bring up something and say it's because the fans are losing out...then you should also be speaking up about the other sellers who are also hoodwinking the fans. I'm of the position that uou can't have it both ways.

 

And, no...you didn't say it would upset you if the auctions went for a low value. But it certainly was implied in your anger towards him for putting them on eBay because it was 'lining his pockets'...so, if the cds were to sell at $9 a piece..then certainly that wouldn't 'line his pockets' any more than your fixed price of $14.99...now would it?? And you wouldn't be angry. But, yet....when you made your initial post on the matter, the Alyze cds weren't even at $5 a piece...and the Toy Roz was barely at $15.....certainly that wasn't obvious at that time that he was 'lining his pockets'....was it?? But yet you blast his label...and his auction as that being 'smelling of a rat'......

 

Also, if an eBay seller nabs all the remaining copies of a bands disc.....let's say for arguments purpose 100 and then sells them on eBay for large amounts of money, the fans are not seeing the entire picture and they don't realise that they have 99 more. Then wouldn't that be a bit...underhanded....or 'smelling like a rat'....in your own words??? And if you don't think that the big eBay sellers are not doing that...than you simply are not clued in (which I find very hard to believe). I KNOW that that happens...a LOT. And I know...that YOU know who the majority of those sellers are...but you say nothing. But, yet you decide to jump on Retrospect in defense of the fans.....I just don't see your ability to have it both ways. But you're entitled to your observations...and your opinions. But, I will be here to provide the other side of that coin.......as long as you allow me. This is your site.

 

Another thing in Retrospect's defense...is that Sam has let it be known that it's a limited pressing (in Friction's case)...and that it is a reissue *in the cases where that applies*...because the Alyze "Afraid of the Dark" is a newly issued cd...never before released in any form. And, if people were not willing to pay more for them, then they wouldn't. There were no reserves on those auctions...and they very well could have gone for next to nothing.

 

And, you say that I am Sam's annointed defender here on this message board. And you made a cute little trademark to signal your ingenuity (props for that). But, the reason it seems as if I've defended him....is because I see the blatant hypocrisy and libel that many people...who are either jealous...or pissed that he's going to cut into their sales....or just simply who he has pissed off because of his untactful nature of handling himself post crap on these message boards with no one to refute their 'bs' in an intelligent and insightful way. And...me, seeing both sides of the matter have elected to at least put out the entire info far all to digest.

 

And...I've done that in Sam's case because I know more of the story than most.......and I do see both sides of the coin. Just, too often on here...only one side is presented.....

 

I do agree that with what you said about limiting the fans initial exposure to these releases. But, if you wold read what I've said, I do believe that that will change once Retrospect is up and running.

 

And lastly, I know Sam is not an angel. Nor do I agree with everything he has done. Hell, he could have pulled a "I have a limited pressing of 100 and I'm selling them at $100 a piece". That would have truly been 'lining his pockets', eh?? But he did not...he still let the people decide what they are willing to pay.

 

Me?? I would have put a fixed price of $40 or $50 bucks on the Friction and sold the boatload of them. I would have priced the Alyze at $15 - $20. But....it was not for me to decide. But, when it is all said and done, and things roll a bit more smoothly....more people will be ecstatic with Retrospect than not. And they will be unbelievably AMAZED at the titles that are forthcoming. I know that I am....and that is saying something. And, truth be told...that is all he really cares about.

 

In my own 'defense'. LOL I try to be the voice of reason when it comes to people reacting with their emotions...or their clandestine...or libelous, ways. I give insight into the situations when someone may not see it. I, at least, like to make people think....and perhaps get more info than they may have.....

 

It's really that simple.....and I grow weary of repeating myself when it comes to these things.

 

Now, you'll either enjoy the music.....or you won't. It's up to each person to decide.

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I think it's awesome that these discs are being released, BUT like I mentioned earlier, since they're official new releases, I want them to be sold at reasonable prices and not strictly by auctions on eBay.  I feel that's unfair to both the consumer AND the bands.  If and when they're available for general purchase, I'll be buying them all.  Until then, people can bid $50+ on the Friction CD on eBay, but it won't be me.

 

Agree 100%. Until these are available somewhere for outright purchase at an advertised flat rate price, it's the same old shit. It's not doing anyone any good except lining Sam's pockets at the expense of the fans.

 

If I start seeing them at NEH Records, or AOR Heaven, or Schmankerl, or Perris, or on Ebay with $14.99 BINs, then I'll retract the above.

 

Until then it smells like a rat.

 

-Dan

 

"At the expense of the fans".....where are you when the many eBay sellers who have 50 or 100 copies of a certain bands cd and they only list 1 a month in their auctions.....or do their clandestine trades for high dollar cds when they, in fact, have a ton of copies?? I could name off many eBay sellers who do that...and I bet you could too.

 

Where are the people at when bands are selling their cds directly for big bucks when they have a ton of copies?? I didn't hear anyone bitching at Mark David from Concrete Jungle when he sold his own cds for $120 a piece. Or his CDR EP for $40. I don't hear anyone bitch when the guy from Mistress sells his cds on eBay for big bucks....or Sweet Teaze or the guy from Deja Vu who sold his for $100 a pop. I don't hear you smelling rats in those instances....

 

I guess the only way most of you will think anything is legit is if the band's contract is posted for all of you to see so that all of the selective 'sheriff's' will make sure they're getting their due, eh?? One of the very moderators of this message board has been in contact from one of the guys in Alyze and knows that Retrospect is legit and so are the Alyze releases....but I guess that is just not enough for some.

 

While I agree that a common price should be the 'way to go', I find it interesting that if the auctioned cds only go for $9 that that would upset you. And after checking on his auctions, that just may be the case.

 

I mean....Delbert, PJ and many other sellers often use the phrase, 'let the market determine what the value of a cd is".....and I don't hear any complaining.

 

And, let me reiterate...that, I too, would like to see a common fixed price for his releases. And I'll venture a guess that once everything is up and running that you will.....but...if not, then whoever doesn't like what he's doing will do without. And if his business suffers...then it will have been of his own valition.

 

Jim,

 

I'm not saying that I expect Retrospect to not be legit. Hell, I really hope it is. All I'm saying is that, if these discs are being released by the bands, wouldn't you think the band would want them to be available to EVERYBODY to purchase at ANYTIME, and not once a month at a higher profit for Sam and NOT the band? The examples you state about bands selling their own stuff on eBay is quite different, as it's remaining out-of-print material of their own. If these are being re-released (or released for the first time), wouldn't you expect there to be as many copies as the label wants to produce to get it into the hands of the consumer, and benefit the BAND? I mean, what if MTM, Escape, etc... all released their stuff only on eBay? How does that benefit the band at all? Okay, they get royalties for 1 copy a month while the seller makes a bundle on each? See what I mean?

 

Again, I repeat, I HOPE that's not the case as I want to purchase these releases through normal sources. IF it is, then I don't believe Retrospect will be in business long as there's no way bands would continue to want their material released this way.

 

Jody....

 

They're not going to be on eBay...once a month. I explained what he has done in most lengthy reply to Dan. And I've repeatedly said that once the website is up and running...and they have a way to purchase online, I'm thinking that is the way it will go. I believe it was more of a pricing issue with him.

 

You would be surprised at what the bands say and do. It is possible that someone could purchase the rights to the bands' material without any payments on sales...or future royalties. I'm not saying that that is the case here...but it could be...and it is possible.

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I was going to stay out of this one, but this is my take. It's not meant to attack anyone here in any way

 

Personally, I think if he does have a certain amout of them pressed, instead of selling them one at a time to keep the prices up there, then maybe he should consider offering them in a dutch auction for 25-50 items at a crack. I feel that would be less deceitful.

 

He's going on the law of Supply And Demand right now. He's the only one with them adn he knows it, so releasing them one at a time, he can let the people battle over them until the end of the auction causing a bidding war and sky high prices. When it's all over, he throws out another bone and they come running. Having a dutch auction seems to be a more honest way of selling them in my opinion.

 

On top of that, I've seen many many reissues come out in the last 5 years of rare cd's, and when a regular label releases them, they usually run them around $15 a crack give or take. The same as any other cd out there.

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JLPRocks,

 

I'll be honest: I can't make heads or tails of some of the reasoning in that lengthy post. It's not making any sense.

 

Rather than try to address each point and wade through it all, I'll try one last time on a few of the points:

 

1. By deliberately only selling one copy at a time on Ebay, he is not "making these available" as legit labels do. He's intentionally counting on collectors playing against one another to boost the final price. There's not a single legit label out there that operates that way (note: there are plenty of SELLERS that do, but not labels).

 

2. I don't buy the whole "well maybe once he figures things out he'll sell them at a flat rate" notion. That is a cop out. Sam's been doing this for ages, and he knows what his costs are. Instead of talking about what he "might do" the proof is in what he "is doing."

 

3. "Huge cashflow burden" to press the CDs. He owns a CD plant in Russia and it costs him pennies on the dollar to get CDs pressed. He has CDs pressed by the thousands for his run-of-the-mill Ebay sales and all of a sudden THESE reissues will upset the apple cart? He has to sell these for astronomical prices because the pressing costs are too high? Sorry, can't buy it.

 

 

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what you or I think. He'll get his lofty prices, and the bands and fans will be the ultimate losers, because so many more units COULD be sold.

 

Sam's certainly entitled to conduct his business the way he sees fit, and he's definitely successful at it. But don't try and deceive people by calling this endeavor a legitimate record label. A legit label would have set wholesale and retail pricing for its merchandise... it would NOT intentionally have its customers competing with one another to drive up the price.

 

-Dan

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I think it's awesome that these discs are being released, BUT like I mentioned earlier, since they're official new releases, I want them to be sold at reasonable prices and not strictly by auctions on eBay.  I feel that's unfair to both the consumer AND the bands.  If and when they're available for general purchase, I'll be buying them all.  Until then, people can bid $50+ on the Friction CD on eBay, but it won't be me.

 

Agree 100%. Until these are available somewhere for outright purchase at an advertised flat rate price, it's the same old shit. It's not doing anyone any good except lining Sam's pockets at the expense of the fans.

 

If I start seeing them at NEH Records, or AOR Heaven, or Schmankerl, or Perris, or on Ebay with $14.99 BINs, then I'll retract the above.

 

Until then it smells like a rat.

 

-Dan

 

"At the expense of the fans".....where are you when the many eBay sellers who have 50 or 100 copies of a certain bands cd and they only list 1 a month in their auctions.....or do their clandestine trades for high dollar cds when they, in fact, have a ton of copies?? I could name off many eBay sellers who do that...and I bet you could too.

 

Where are the people at when bands are selling their cds directly for big bucks when they have a ton of copies?? I didn't hear anyone bitching at Mark David from Concrete Jungle when he sold his own cds for $120 a piece. Or his CDR EP for $40. I don't hear anyone bitch when the guy from Mistress sells his cds on eBay for big bucks....or Sweet Teaze or the guy from Deja Vu who sold his for $100 a pop. I don't hear you smelling rats in those instances....

 

I guess the only way most of you will think anything is legit is if the band's contract is posted for all of you to see so that all of the selective 'sheriff's' will make sure they're getting their due, eh?? One of the very moderators of this message board has been in contact from one of the guys in Alyze and knows that Retrospect is legit and so are the Alyze releases....but I guess that is just not enough for some.

 

While I agree that a common price should be the 'way to go', I find it interesting that if the auctioned cds only go for $9 that that would upset you. And after checking on his auctions, that just may be the case.

 

I mean....Delbert, PJ and many other sellers often use the phrase, 'let the market determine what the value of a cd is".....and I don't hear any complaining.

 

And, let me reiterate...that, I too, would like to see a common fixed price for his releases. And I'll venture a guess that once everything is up and running that you will.....but...if not, then whoever doesn't like what he's doing will do without. And if his business suffers...then it will have been of his own valition.

 

 

But the other people who do it aren't claiming that they are bringing rock back to the people and so on and so forth. If you are starting a label to bring back or release previously unreleased material, why would you put it up for auction? :huhsign:

 

 

JL

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I was going to stay out of this one, but this is my take. It's not meant to attack anyone here in any way

 

Personally, I think if he does have a certain amout of them pressed, instead of selling them one at a time to keep the prices up there, then maybe he should consider offering them in a dutch auction for 25-50 items at a crack. I feel that would be less deceitful.

 

He's going on the law of Supply And Demand right now. He's the only one with them adn he knows it, so releasing them one at a time, he can let the people battle over them until the end of the auction causing a bidding war and sky high prices. When it's all over, he throws out another bone and they come running. Having a dutch auction seems to be a more honest way of selling them in my opinion.

 

On top of that, I've seen many many reissues come out in the last 5 years of rare cd's, and when a regular label releases them, they usually run them around $15 a crack give or take. The same as any other cd out there.

 

I kind of like the idea of a Dutch auction....at least at first, to determine within a larger magnitude where the pricing should fall.

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I was going to stay out of this one, but this is my take. It's not meant to attack anyone here in any way

 

Personally, I think if he does have a certain amout of them pressed, instead of selling them one at a time to keep the prices up there, then maybe he should consider offering them in a dutch auction for 25-50 items at a crack. I feel that would be less deceitful.

 

He's going on the law of Supply And Demand right now. He's the only one with them adn he knows it, so releasing them one at a time, he can let the people battle over them until the end of the auction causing a bidding war and sky high prices. When it's all over, he throws out another bone and they come running. Having a dutch auction seems to be a more honest way of selling them in my opinion.

 

On top of that, I've seen many many reissues come out in the last 5 years of rare cd's, and when a regular label releases them, they usually run them around $15 a crack give or take. The same as any other cd out there.

 

I kind of like the idea of a Dutch auction....at least at first, to determine within a larger magnitude where the pricing should fall.

 

Sorry, but I don't agree with any method of determining 'where the pricing should fall' in this case. I believe that's been done successfully throughout previous DECADES by numerous record labels and artists already. The only thing he could be determining is what HE could possibly get for these discs. While that practice is valid for your average eBay seller, it is not valid OR practical for a 'record label' to operate that way. As stated numerous times previously, that practice benefits neither the band or the consumer. The only person it would benefit is Sam. IF Sam really wants to get this music into the hands of the masses as he has stated in the past, set his price @ $12-$15 a CD (which I'm sure is quite a nice profit for Sam even at that price) as other record labels do, and make your profit in volume, not a per-cd basis.

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"Where are the people at when bands are selling their cds directly for big bucks when they have a ton of copies?? I didn't hear anyone bitching at Mark David from Concrete Jungle when he sold his own cds for $120 a piece. Or his CDR EP for $40. I don't hear anyone bitch when the guy from Mistress sells his cds on eBay for big bucks....or Sweet Teaze or the guy from Deja Vu who sold his for $100 a pop. I don't hear you smelling rats in those instances...."

 

Well obviously, this isn't at all the same as what Sam is doing since he's selling brand new re-issues, not original deadstock cd's that have been collecting dust in someone's garage for the past 15 years. And I hate to say it, but as far as the Friction cd being pressed in quantaties of 100...I wouldn't exactly take that to the bank. A dutch auction is a super idea, & would go a long way towards Sam not only backing up his previous statements about getting music into the fan's hands, but also repairing his image in the community here at HH.

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