GUNS AND ROSES PATHETIC

[MikeyLHolm]

I don't think it makes difference how you treat the Chinese Democracy. The song quality is just - not sure how to put this... - terrible. "This I Love" is the only song that holds some kind of quality. Tho considering what stuff people like to listen nowadays, I'm sure there is some people who find this good.

 

Illusions could have been a bit shorter surely, but I can't find that many fillers that you could fit it to one album. I mean Don't Cry+Estranged+November Rain trilogy is already more than 1 Vinyl side in length. Then throw Coma, Locomotive, Civil war etc on top and its already 1 album worth of stuff. For me there's some 3-4 per Illusion that are more B-side quality than diamonds.

[Mullethead]

I'll take this opportunity to semi hijack things so I can continue to sing the praises of Chinese Democracy. Absolutely love it and think people are really missing out. Forget Appetite, forget Axl the man, treat it like a solo release & listen to some beautifully crafted songs. My only complaint is it would have benefitted from grittier production. Too much Def Lep high gloss.

Agreed! One of my top 5 for 2008

[Nightrain]

 

 

 

They will never top AFD though I love Lies and Chinese Democracy. The Illusion albums were crammed with so much filler. I never listen to them. I actually really liked Spaghetti Incident too.

 

The Illusion albums could have been cut down to one pretty killer disc. Way too much garbage on both discs.

 

 

Two CDs out and they rack up 14 million sales, one CD out probably only 8-9 million copies so there's a big difference there, and apparently, there's also a cut-down version of these albums which was released later, the cover was divided in half, and that only means more sales

 

What really counts is whether or not it stands the test of time...not the sales during that time period. How many Billy Cirus CD's sold of his first release? But would you or anyone else who bought it listen to it now? Bad example I know genre wise but you get the point.

 

 

I can't comment on Cyrus but if you ask those country fans, I bet they said they will still listen to em now

 

I think what GNR is trying to achieve with so many tracks on 2 albums and with different styles is to reach to a large pool of audience and they succeeded which is portrayed by the big numbers of sales.

 

Guitarworld did a quick poll in 2011 and 27.000 people responds to which is the best-to-worst songs on Illusion discs and here's the result

 

30. "Bad Apples"

29. "Back Off Bitch"

28. "Shotgun Blues"

27. "You Ain't The First"

26. "The Garden"

25. "Live and Let Die"

24. "Dust N' Bones"

23. "Bad Obsession"

22. "Garden of Eden"

21. "Double Talkin' Jive"

20. "Pretty Tied Up"

19. "Right Next Door To Hell"

18. "My World"

17. "Don't Cry" (alt. lyrics)

16. "Yesterdays"

15. "So Fine"

14. "14 Years"

13. "Dead Horse"

12. "Breakdown"

11. "Perfect Crime"

10. "Don't Damn Me"

09. "Knockin' On Heaven's Door"

08. "Locomotive"

07. "Don't Cry"

06. "You Could Be Mine"

05 "Coma"

04. "November Rain"

03. "Civil War"

02. "Get In The Ring"

01. Estranged

 

But for me personally, I can just replace 'Coma', 'Don't Damn Me', and '14 Years' with 'Bad Obsession' , 'Live and Let Die', and 'Shotgun Blues' (love that 3 tracks!) and that shows how people's taste differ a lot. Anybody's pick here might be different with that poll result. The #18 which is 'My World' is a bad rap song if I'm not mistaken and probably should be at the last but it's very surprising that many people quite like it

[Nightrain]

I don't think it makes difference how you treat the Chinese Democracy. The song quality is just - not sure how to put this... - terrible. "This I Love" is the only song that holds some kind of quality. Tho considering what stuff people like to listen nowadays, I'm sure there is some people who find this good.

 

Illusions could have been a bit shorter surely, but I can't find that many fillers that you could fit it to one album. I mean Don't Cry+Estranged+November Rain trilogy is already more than 1 Vinyl side in length. Then throw Coma, Locomotive, Civil war etc on top and its already 1 album worth of stuff. For me there's some 3-4 per Illusion that are more B-side quality than diamonds.

 

'This I Love' is purely a gem and even if you don't like some songs here, usually people like 'Better', 'Catcher In The Rye', and 'Street of Dreams' which have the classic GNR feel to them. Even though this album was the bottom of my GNR list, it's still worth at least 75-80%, haven't re-rated it, but I think it's a solid, good release, but this came from GNR fan

[Geoff]

'Back off bitch' second last? That's probably the closest song to their 'AFD' sound and style and easily of my faves on the 'Illusions' discs. How on earth is it 29th on that list??

[Nightrain]

'Back off bitch' second last? That's probably the closest song to their 'AFD' sound and style and easily of my faves on the 'Illusions' discs. How on earth is it 29th on that list??

 

Please be patient, I'll look for Guitarworld contact person to ask this question

[Leykis101]

You know what album I really dug, and I am embarrassed admitting this, cause I never heard it until like 2 years ago, I thought Slash Snakepits disc Aint Life Grand, I didnt care for the vocalist from Imperial Drag trying to belt out Hard Rock tunes on that debut Snakepit disc, loved Imperial Drag, hated their singer on that disc, whoever that fucking vocalist is on ALG was a find, I heard the disc on accident, when my daughter was home from school one day, fucking around with my discs(she knows thats a big time no no LOL) but I walked through the door when I got home, and before I flipped out, I went to calm down, and a song was ending, then the intro to Mean Bone started, and I thought she was listening to Rap, which was even pushing me worse, then when it kicked in, I thought "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ROCKIN SHIT" i ran downstairs and screamed to Kaylin(My Daughter) "honey, what the fuck is this" she just looked at me extremely nervous and said something about Snakepits, she thought that name was so cool, thats why she was listening to it, when she handed me the cd case, I about shit, hear I had this disc in my shelf for like 100 years it seemed like, never go listened to not even once, I spent the next 2 weeks rocking that disc, jamming mean bone in my Jeep, I truly thought that singer was a unique and fucking awesome rock vocalist, but I never really looked into it to much more, anyone else dig the singer on that album as much as I did? thats also when I took a hard look at the many many(I truly and sincerely mean MANY!!) cd's that I own, which some having not even been removed from the plastic, or the box on about a dozen of them, but the countless discs I just have, and have never listened to, I wanted to go through and listen to any album I had, and had never listened to, but when it came down to it, it just felt like a way to overwhelming job, and like most other shit, I figured i'd do it later! I wonder how many albums that I'd fucking love, are sitting undiscovered in my safe? anyone else have any situation maybe even similar to mine they can put out to make me feel a little bit better? like im not the laziest fuck on earth. please share

[Gibbo]

I saw them live in the early to mid 90s at Milton Keynes bowl........amazing gig.

 

That's how I want to remember them.

 

I still think my self insanely lucky to have seen them at Donington in '88, before they released 'Lies' ...

[Gibbo]

 

Yeah I think Chinese Democracy didn't sell that well. Question is, will bestbuy or target do the same with the next release or will they be more careful in ordering large amounts of CDs because of bad experience in the past? According to the band members they are working on a new album and will release something, but always said to be patient as well and that it's not gonna be in the near future.

 

The reason it didn't sell well because it's a different sounding album than 'Appetite' or 'Illusion'. Usually the moment a band walk away from their early formula, that's when the sales dissipated.

 

 

GnR's been pathetic since ...

 

(scratches head)

 

...sh*t, at least 1989.

 

If GnR had died in a plane crash on the way home from the "Appetite" tour and left that album as their only legacy, they'd still be revered today. Unfortunately, the increasingly cartoonish antics of W. Asshole Rose f*cked it up.

 

Disagree completely mate. With 'Illusion', GNR reached much more audience especially they have 'November Rain' and 'Estranged', among the best songs ever made on earth. 'Illusion' albums were packed with lots of different styles, from punk, heavy metal, blues, pop, etc and one man's trash is another man's treasure. The strategy of providing a lot of tracks, as we've discussed it earlier, usually proved fruitful because many people with different taste will appreciate that.

 

 

'November Rain' was written for AFD ... as was 'You Could Be Mine' ...

[Nightrain]

Yes, but it's not released until 'Illusion' so if GNR did die on a plane-crash then both songs were probably in vault until today

[Dark]

You know what album I really dug, and I am embarrassed admitting this, cause I never heard it until like 2 years ago, I thought Slash Snakepits disc Aint Life Grand, I didnt care for the vocalist from Imperial Drag trying to belt out Hard Rock tunes on that debut Snakepit disc, loved Imperial Drag, hated their singer on that disc, whoever that fucking vocalist is on ALG was a find, I heard the disc on accident, when my daughter was home from school one day, fucking around with my discs(she knows thats a big time no no LOL) but I walked through the door when I got home, and before I flipped out, I went to calm down, and a song was ending, then the intro to Mean Bone started, and I thought she was listening to Rap, which was even pushing me worse, then when it kicked in, I thought "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ROCKIN SHIT" i ran downstairs and screamed to Kaylin(My Daughter) "honey, what the fuck is this" she just looked at me extremely nervous and said something about Snakepits, she thought that name was so cool, thats why she was listening to it, when she handed me the cd case, I about shit, hear I had this disc in my shelf for like 100 years it seemed like, never go listened to not even once, I spent the next 2 weeks rocking that disc, jamming mean bone in my Jeep, I truly thought that singer was a unique and fucking awesome rock vocalist, but I never really looked into it to much more, anyone else dig the singer on that album as much as I did? thats also when I took a hard look at the many many(I truly and sincerely mean MANY!!) cd's that I own, which some having not even been removed from the plastic, or the box on about a dozen of them, but the countless discs I just have, and have never listened to, I wanted to go through and listen to any album I had, and had never listened to, but when it came down to it, it just felt like a way to overwhelming job, and like most other shit, I figured i'd do it later! I wonder how many albums that I'd fucking love, are sitting undiscovered in my safe? anyone else have any situation maybe even similar to mine they can put out to make me feel a little bit better? like im not the laziest fuck on earth. please share

 

Whoa! that's the story of my life dude! When digital music became available for download i went ape shit on Amazon, iTunes for a breif but expensive stint and various trading circles i came across from time to time. I've got mountains of mp3's i bought and still haven't heard and when i hear something out and about or at a mates house and go wow, what is that i rush home and discover i've had it for years!

 

Use Your Illusion came out when i was well into GnR and i'm a big fan of both of them. I don't think i would cut anything from them and the Guitar World voted track order is baffling.

 

I didn't gel with Chinese Democracy when it came out and haven't really heard it since come to think of it. About the only thing it did was put me onto Buckethead's stuff which has some hidden gems in.

[Jeff]

GNR bashing threads make me laugh...and shake my head / roll my eyes at the same time.

[Leykis101]

GNR bashing threads make me laugh...and shake my head / roll my eyes at the same time.

 

Oh why? cause their so good? totally fucking blew dude, I never really create any bashing threads, for me to bash anyone, I gotta really dislike it, and I consider myself fairly well tuned in the ear, I mean I like greats like Bolton, George Michael, NIck Gilder, Cat Stevens, so it's not like I don't know what im talking about, and dude, I watched this concert completely off the cuff, I just happened upon it, and you know what my 1st thought was? fuck yeah, GNR, fucking sweet, man was I charged 3 hours of my life for suckering into watching it!!!

[Jeff]

 

GNR bashing threads make me laugh...and shake my head / roll my eyes at the same time.

 

Oh why? cause their so good? totally fucking blew dude, I never really create any bashing threads, for me to bash anyone, I gotta really dislike it, and I consider myself fairly well tuned in the ear, I mean I like greats like Bolton, George Michael, NIck Gilder, Cat Stevens, so it's not like I don't know what im talking about, and dude, I watched this concert completely off the cuff, I just happened upon it, and you know what my 1st thought was? fuck yeah, GNR, fucking sweet, man was I charged 3 hours of my life for suckering into watching it!!!

 

 

The concert may have sucked, too bad, but if you were not aware that they may sound like shit, not give a fuck, or go on stage 3 hours late then you have been asleep at the wheel for a long time. Bashing the concert, fair enough. Just because one live show sucked doesn't mean they sucked in 87, 89, 91. Even if people don't like GnR now or never did, those who make comments how bad they were is fine, their opinion. But like them or not they did a lot for the genre, even defined it to new degree and were at the top for a reason. So yeah, I think these threads that turn into GnR bashing are laughable...but that is just my opinion.

[Glen]

 

I saw them live in the early to mid 90s at Milton Keynes bowl........amazing gig.

 

That's how I want to remember them.

 

I still think my self insanely lucky to have seen them at Donington in '88, before they released 'Lies' ...

 

 

I saw them at Donnington 88 as well, although I wasnt paying much attention as I didnt know that much about them at that gig.

[tobi is an animal]

On 3/22/2015 at 6:26 AM, Nightrain said:

Guitarworld did a quick poll in 2011 and 27.000 people responds to which is the best-to-worst songs on Illusion discs and here's the result

30. "Bad Apples"

29. "Back Off Bitch"

28. "Shotgun Blues"

27. "You Ain't The First"

26. "The Garden"

25. "Live and Let Die"

24. "Dust N' Bones"

23. "Bad Obsession"

22. "Garden of Eden"

21. "Double Talkin' Jive"

20. "Pretty Tied Up"

19. "Right Next Door To Hell"

18. "My World"

17. "Don't Cry" (alt. lyrics)

16. "Yesterdays"

15. "So Fine"

14. "14 Years"

13. "Dead Horse"

12. "Breakdown"

11. "Perfect Crime"

10. "Don't Damn Me"

09. "Knockin' On Heaven's Door"

08. "Locomotive"

07. "Don't Cry"

06. "You Could Be Mine"

05 "Coma"

04. "November Rain"

03. "Civil War"

02. "Get In The Ring"

01. Estranged

 

But for me personally, I can just replace 'Coma', 'Don't Damn Me', and '14 Years' with 'Bad Obsession' , 'Live and Let Die', and 'Shotgun Blues' (love that 3 tracks!) and that shows how people's taste differ a lot. Anybody's pick here might be different with that poll result. The #18 which is 'My World' is a bad rap song if I'm not mistaken and probably should be at the last but it's very surprising that many people quite like it

The 12 songs I'd go with if it had been released as a single album:

Right Next Door to Hell
Bad Obsession
Double Talkin' Jive
The Garden
Garden Of Eden
Don't Damn Me (my favorite from the two albums.)
Dead Horse
Coma
Civil War
Breakdown
Pretty Tied Up
Locomotive (2nd fav from the two albums.)

[AlphaMale]

LOL @ Get In The Ring being 2nd best song on that above listr. That song is HORRIBLE.