Joel Ellis accuses Jon Bon Jovi of stealing his song!

[glam_junkie]

Read about it here...

http://www.sleazeroxx.com/news08/0810bon.shtml

 

I just wanna hear the track now!

[66 mustang]

Ted Poley also has said Bon Jovi stole the opening intro for Wanted Dead Or Alive from an old Prophet song and after hearing it I can say I agree.

that being said, Led Zepp stole a lot of stuff from other people, Even the opening of Stairway To Heaven.

check out about 1:40 into the song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogTFdlbup24

[SamboraRocks86]

just look at Metal That Sounds Like Other Metal I-XXV on Youtube...

 

and have a listen to George Harrisons My Sweet Lord and The Chiffons He's So Fine

[glam_junkie]

I think bon jovi has also been accused of stealing a track from Loverboy

[Geoff]

If Joel Ellis wrote 'I'll be there for you' then why is listening to 'Kicked n' clawed' like being kicked and clawed in the balls? Are we really to believe the guy who wrote one good song ('Turn it on' for Heavy Bones) actually wrote two good songs and one was miraculously stolen?

 

[glam_junkie]

If Joel Ellis wrote 'I'll be there for you' then why is listening to 'Kicked n' clawed' like being kicked and clawed in the balls? Are we really to believe the guy who wrote one good song ('Turn it on' for Heavy Bones) actually wrote two good songs and one was miraculously stolen?

 

 

 

Apparently he's gonna post the original demo for folks to have a listen to.

 

BTW, I absolutely love Kicked n Klawed. One of the best sleaze albums of all time!

[66 mustang]

songs that sound like other songs

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25O-bLjreaA...feature=related

 

part II

[heaven&hell]

This is actually the second time that Joel has mentioned this, I believe that the other time was in an interview with Sleazeroxx last year or the year before.

 

This wouldn't shock me at all. You have to figure how many demo tapes that established bands get on a daily basis, I'm sure that many bands have stolen from unknown artists. But before someone thinks that Joel is some worthless piece of shit crying wolf, this guy IMO was a GREAT vocalist and the Heavy Bones album is essential for any fan of 80's early 90's Hard Rock and sorry Geoff he's wrote many more than one good song.

 

Joel Ellis>Jon Bon Jovi and Fake Richie

 

 

Here's the entire story:

 

After posting a report by Chris Faraone of Boston Magazine in which Bart Steele accused Bon Jovi of ripping off one of his songs, Sleaze Roxx received an email from former Cats In Boots and Heavy Bones vocalist Joel Ellis claiming that a similar thing happened to him. Joel's email can be read in its entirety below:

 

"It was back in the 1980's when Denny Holan and I were recording our pre-production demos for Atlantic Records with Merri Hoaxx. We had just finished tracking a studio session that included our original song "I'll Be There For You". We left Paramount Studios in Hollywood with a cassette tape of rough mixes and headed straight for The Rainbow Bar & Grill on Sunset. When we got there we gave the tape to Michael to put on the Bar's sound system, it was the classic "Is It Worthy" test for demos and mixes that a lot of bands used to gage their nights work. We'd always pop on the song and listen for the sounds then we would watch to see if people were digging the songs. The place was definitely digging the songs that night.

 

I ran into Sam Kinison who asked me to come back to his table and hang out. So while our tape was playing, we sat at the table in the back with Sam, Jon Bon Jovi, Peter Aykroyd (Dan's brother) and Doc McGee, etc... Johnny gave us this line of BS that if we gave him this tape he would take it to his uncle at Polydor Records and try to get us out on tour with him.

 

I somehow felt like I was going to regret that, but we agreed to take a chance and trust him, so we gave Jon Bon Jovi the cassette that night and we never heard back from him. A short time later we heard the chorus for our song "I'll be theeerrre for youuuu" as JBJs next big hit. My manager at the time wanted to sue his ass but we were doing well and were very busy with all the Atlantic developments going on that I didn't want to cause problems for our momentum that we had going at the time. I hated when people would note the resemblance between Jon Bon Jovi and me at the time and I didn't want to give the world any other reasons to compare me to the Golden Boy Johnny. We were in no way similar to each other and strongly resented any comparison...I wasn't pop singer, I was a rock singer and I wasn't a self righteous frosted hair perm boy with relatives who paved my way so I could steal songs from real artists and get rich off of ripping them off. I was a self made true rocker from the streets to the stage to the studio to the stores, with no help from daddy's friends & relatives and we rocked without the posing. Whatever successes or short comings I had were of my own making, but it was real. So I didn't care about that song.

 

Later on during the Heavy Bones days, I was dating a girl named Lehua Reid, who was previously engaged to Richie Sambora. While she lived at Richie's house, she told me about how she remembered the nights that Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora would sit at Richie's piano with boxes full of tapes they had collected from trusting aspiring musicians who trusted them with their creations for a shot at success, how they would play through tape after tape looking for catchy songs to rip off all the while laughing at the suckers who gave them their tapes. When she heard my demo recording of "I'll Be There For You" she sat back, eyes wide open, saying "NO WAY!!! This is YOU??", and went on to tell me about the night that they were so excited to be ripping off this song and how Johnny had always wanted an excuse to rip off John Lennon for his vocal in the verse of "Don't Let Me Down" by the Beatles. They worked on that song for hours playing my demo over and over again and it stuck in her head.

 

Of course I had already known where their recent huge hit single had come from but hearing her tell that story was like salt in the wound...I've always felt that people should know about this and I still have the original demo. If anyone in the world wants to hear it I'll be happy to put an Mpeg up on my website so they can hear it too.

 

I wonder how many other guys are out there right now feeling the same burn from the Golden Boy Jon Bon Jovi and his trusty side kick Richie Rich."

 

Sincerely,

Joel Ellis of Merri Hoaxx, Cats In Boots and Heavy Bones.

 

Courtesy of www.sleazeroxx.com

[glam_junkie]

or maybe the Rock Candy re-issue is hitting the shelves soon and this is a good way of getting a bit of publicity.

[heaven&hell]

or maybe the Rock Candy re-issue is hitting the shelves soon and this is a good way of getting a bit of publicity.

 

Possibly but it's already a fact that Jon fucked Skid Row out of money, sure they didn't have to sign that contract but with him being friends with Snake he didn't have to fuck them out of all of their publishing, so from knowing that story I wouldn't be suprised that Jon has fucked other artists/bands over.

[Evil Rick]

Since Bon Jovi has gone country I suppose he should look for some up and coming Nashville bands to rip off.

[heaven&hell]

Since Bon Jovi has gone country I suppose he should look for some up and coming Nashville bands to rip off.

 

Maybe he's waiting to see what song Sebastian Bach comes up with for the show Gone Country so he can just take his royalties again.

[Metal T]

The thing about this is unless he's got some hard evidence,it won't fly.Plus if he wanted to sue it'd be pretty pointless-given the monster lawyers BJ could cart out.Just ask Vinnie Vincent-theres no way he could've won in court with those high dollar KISS attorneys.Ozzy said most musicians are natural born thieves and he wasn't kidding....

[SamboraRocks86]

its a dog eat dog world, you want it bad enough, youll go to extreme lengths to get it...

 

no-one ever got anywhere without dirtying their hands a little.....i bet most famous people have a few skeletons in their closet so to speak...

[heaven&hell]

its a dog eat dog world, you want it bad enough, youll go to extreme lengths to get it...

 

no-one ever got anywhere without dirtying their hands a little.....i bet most famous people have a few skeletons in their closet so to speak...

 

So are you saying that if Jon and Richie did steal other artists songs that it's okay?

[66 mustang]

I think what he is saying is that pretty much EVERYONE has their hands dirty that made it big and I'd say pretty much he is right. There are just varying degrees on how much they ripped off someone else.

[heaven&hell]

I think what he is saying is that pretty much EVERYONE has their hands dirty that made it big and I'd say pretty much he is right. There are just varying degrees on how much they ripped off someone else.

 

It's one thing hearing a song and then writing something that has some similarities but it's a totally different thing going through bands demos and taking the songs for yourself.

[glam_junkie]

No-one can beat Steve Summers from Pretty Boy Floyd though.. and the whole Ariel Stiles saga.

[phaffas]

No-one can beat Steve Summers from Pretty Boy Floyd though.. and the whole Ariel Stiles saga.

 

??

[glam_junkie]

No-one can beat Steve Summers from Pretty Boy Floyd though.. and the whole Ariel Stiles saga.

 

??

 

 

Don't quote me 100% fact, but the story goes something like the following.

Basically a guy by the name of Ariel Stiles wrote all the songs from Leather Boyz. He was the vocalist but then Steve Summers basically hijacked the band and took all the songs as his own. He has continued to re-record and play them for years, never actually crediting Ariel with the song wriitng, and I guessing therefore the $$$ that follow.

 

I do believe they may have come to some agreement a couple of years back that allowed Steve to continue using the songs, but I'm not sure of the exact details.

 

Somewhere on cassette I have the original Ariel Stiles versions.

 

A lot of dedicated glam fans actually hate pretty boy floyd for this very reason, cos they think it is a completely stolen idea, and the bloke who started it all got kicked to the curb and has never received any of the credit.

 

As I said, don't quote it all as 100% fact... but that's the general idea.

[glam_junkie]

Courtesy of Glitzine - Edited/Trimmed for relevance to this topic

 

Interview with Aerial Stiles September 2006

 

Q2. Of course, you were a major songwriter in the early days of Pretty Boy Floyd. Were you approached to rejoin the band for their 2004 release, Size Really Does Matter?

 

No. I didn't have any material on that release. I was very happy to see Steve create some new music with new people.

 

Q3. Keeping with the last question, your past issues with the band have been well documented. Please discuss your past relationship with the band. Have you buried the proverbial legal hatchet with PBF?

 

You don't know how much I'd like to be able to say something pleasant and kind here, I truly do. I was raised with: "Say something nice, or say nothing..." But what can I say when "the proverbial hatchet" is buried in my back!

 

I want the fans to know that I'm not here to turn fans against PBF-- I'm glad they like the band and the music and I want them to. I'm not doing this interview because I'm bitter or whining. I'm happy and successful on my own. I don't want or need the attention, but you asked for an interview, so here it is. I'm sorry if the truth tarnishes the band, but it is what it is.

 

Right now, Vinnie, Kari & I (are all good friends) and we're suing together, (though with Kari rejoining PBF, he may opt out now, I don't know). They are not being paid publishing royalties and for the use of their likenesses. For me, it's a case of my songs and recordings being flat out stolen from me and released without my permission. According to what the labels are indicating, the name that keeps coming up on contracts is Kristy Majors, not Steve's. Kristy has licensed around 35 of my songs and recordings from demos onto various cd's such as the vault I & II, tonight belongs to the young, ultimate pbf, dirty glam, etc., and a bunch of compilations. About 27 different CD's in all.

 

I've heard that Steve didn't receive any money for these cd's either and complained to one of the labels about not releasing the cd's (which were competing with the release of "Size really does matter..." at the time), but I don't know that for a fact. Keep in mind, Kristy did most of this before he was even back in PBF himself! This has happened not only with my songs on these releases, but to others as well. Kristy is also named in a lawsuit filed by Cody Jarrett. They took two of Cody's songs, one of which was co-written with Chip Z'nuff, and recorded/released those without permission. They took Kery Doll's song "Seven minutes in heaven." So it 's not just me, this is just what they do to people.

 

I don't know if Steve is even aware that at one point Kristy contacted Vinnie and Kari to join him in two lawsuits against Steve. He wanted back royalties in one and the take control of the band name with the other. Then Kristy asked me to join them as well, saying: "If we have the name, Steve is done. Steve can't play or sell anything under pretty boy floyd." So you can imagine my surprise when I hear that Kristy is rejoining the band.

 

Anyone who's purchased one of the demo compilations knows the recordings sound like crap. Those recordings did not come from the masters. They came from bad copies and whomever put them out knew that, too. I'm extremely pissed off about that! The fans are getting ripped off. The original masters, which were much better in quality, could have been obtained and even improved upon with the modern digital gear that's readily available. Numerous fans have complained about the quality and rightly so. Here's my assumption: Kristy just saw an opportunity to make money. He apparently did not give a fuck about giving the fans a good quality recording. To obtain the high quality original masters, various songwriters have to get paid and he apparently wanted all the money because he sure as hell never asked anyone. Adding insult to injury for me, Kristy strokes his own ego pretending he's the one writing and playing on the songs--utter bullshit. Then what gets put out is just the worst crappy, baked-in-the-sun cassette copies possible that got pressed onto cd. It's not like I really want to say I played on it, it's fucking embarrassing.

 

The releases alone tell the story: After 10 years they release a new cd (porn stars) and it's almost all old material again. After that, a bunch of compilations of old demos. Most bands write and release new songs. What does that say?

 

At the end of 1990 I started writing for them again and gave them a 2nd chance after this rip off was tried on the "Leather Boyz..." CD. We settled out of court and I rejoined mainly because they had a new manager (warrant's mgr) who was my lawyer's good friend, so I figured I wouldn't get screwed again. I forgave and forgot in an attempt to move on and try to help us all become successful. Everything was fine for 4 years. I wrote and recorded a lot of songs during that time. After that, I wanted to do something else musically and Vinnie and I both quit and started a new band, Rattlin' Bones.

 

The bottom line is I've never done anything to these guys other than quit the band twice because I wanted to do something else. The minute I'm out the door the stealing starts (again) and screwing me out of what I created. Anyway you want to slice it, that's wrong. It's been 16 years of bullshit for me, dealing with these guys, who have attached themselves to my song catalog like a bloodsucking leach on my nut sack! I made the bad choice to work with them a 2nd time and shame on me. I should have known that a leopard does not change its spots. It's interesting how the PBF camp tries to not even acknowledge that I ever played with them! Now you know why. And that's fine by me. I don't want my name ever associated with PBF again. I don't associate with crooks and liars.

 

Q7. What feelings do you have for music sold on ebay? Any problems as an artist from a royalties perspective?

 

Well there's a song of mine "leather boys" being sold currently on eBay as a music download that I did not license. I'm not getting paid, so it's a problem! Other than that, I've had to ask 3 different people to stop who were selling multiple copies on a regular basis of a 3-CD set called "aeriel stiles demos." These were something someone burned and printed up. When it's a one-off sale anyone has the right to sell something they own, but when it's selling mass copies week after week, that's illegal. I asked them politely to stop, they did and that was the end of it. I don't want to kick people off of eBay, but just don't start up a business with my shit! No one has that right but me. (Will someone please explain this concept Kristy Majors?)

 

 

Q10. Back to PBF. The band, since you left, has released more tunes as demos than they've written as a band. Since you wrote most of the tunes, you tell me, is it really that hard to write songs in this style of music?

 

Not really, but it depends where you want to take it. You can write three-chord songs and keep it simple. Then it becomes more about the lyrics and the melody carrying the song. The later stuff I was writing for PBF was more riffs than chords, more metal-style and thus was more involved to play. They don't play those songs live now, they stick with the old stuff and later stuff that's similar to the old stuff. They just recently put a couple of them (kiss my fist & no respect for the law) on their myspace site, there's pic of Kristy that comes up, but that's me playing. I don't know why they never attempted to write more of their own material (meaning not mine). I can't answer that. My best guess is that maybe by using my songs it maintained a consistency; since their sound and lyrics, are in reality-- my particular glam style of writing to fit that particular band. I was surprised to see "Porn Stars" come out as half of the first album again after 10 years! I expected all new material given that there had been 10 years in which to write new stuff. But I'm sure the reason was that they wanted new fans to hear songs that had become out of print, so it was kind of a re-introduction approach and in one way that makes sense. But in another way, why weren't Kristy and Keri Kelli writing? Keri Kelli is a strong writer. Instead, they do 9 of my old songs and 2 covers and 2 Kristy songs. But with releasing such a barrage of CDs consisting of old demos as opposed to new songs, that seems like a quick way to make a few bucks as opposed to a serious desire to progress as a band. More like living off the past. Had they not fucked me at every turn, perhaps I might still be writing new songs with and for them.

[heaven&hell]

No-one can beat Steve Summers from Pretty Boy Floyd though.. and the whole Ariel Stiles saga.

 

??

 

 

Don't quote me 100% fact, but the story goes something like the following.

Basically a guy by the name of Ariel Stiles wrote all the songs from Leather Boyz. He was the vocalist but then Steve Summers basically hijacked the band and took all the songs as his own. He has continued to re-record and play them for years, never actually crediting Ariel with the song wriitng, and I guessing therefore the $$$ that follow.

 

I do believe they may have come to some agreement a couple of years back that allowed Steve to continue using the songs, but I'm not sure of the exact details.

 

Somewhere on cassette I have the original Ariel Stiles versions.

 

A lot of dedicated glam fans actually hate pretty boy floyd for this very reason, cos they think it is a completely stolen idea, and the bloke who started it all got kicked to the curb and has never received any of the credit.

 

As I said, don't quote it all as 100% fact... but that's the general idea.

 

I've never heard that stroy and if it's true that sure is shitty for that poor guy.

[Jez]

So:

 

Jon Bongiovi - Thief

 

Richie Sambora - Drunken Driver

 

Tico Torres - Bad Mullet

 

Alec Such - Shitty Bassist

 

David Bryan - Bad Perm

 

Should have locked them all up a long time ago maybe!!

[heaven&hell]

So:

 

Jon Bongiovi - Thief

 

Richie Sambora - Drunken Driver

 

Tico Torres - Bad Mullet

 

Alec Such - Shitty Bassist

 

David Bryan - Bad Perm

 

Should have locked them all up a long time ago maybe!!

 

[Geoff]

Yeah, I've heard the PBF story too. But the debut CD actually credits Stiles with the song writing, doesn't it?

 

What's sad is that if 'Size really does matter' is Summers' first attempt at song writing, I think ripping off another dude was the right way to go.