Poll - Favorite Retrospect Release so far....

[Guest manicego]

>> HEY IDIOTS - THE METAL MAYHEM VERSION OF KEEL "THE RIGHT TO ROCK" IS A FUCKING BONAFIDE BOOTLEG!!

HOW MANY OF YOU OWN THAT IN YOUR COLLECTION?

 

I DON'T HEAR ANY OF YOU MENTIONING THAT!!!!

 

NOW STFU ALREADY. <<

 

Wow, looks like I struck a chord or something here. Yes, I for one know that the Keel "reissue" is a bootleg. That album isn't the point of contention though. Guess what? 4/5 of the "reissues" from the smaller indies out there are BOOTLEGGED. It doesn't matter if you consulted with the singer of so and so former major label act and got his permission to "reissue" that album, because guess what? MOST of the albums being "reissued" today haven't had their rights revert back to the artists and I know for damn sure that these labels can't afford the price the majors would make them cough up to obtain a third party licensing agreement. I've been in this game a LONG time Sam - and in fact, you used to buy product from me when I worked for a certain (reputable) record label - and I know the rules and abide by them. I liked you, you were a good guy and we have quite a few of the same friends and business partners but facts are facts.

[Retrospect Records]

My personal opinion is that anyone who is a Melodic Rock fan should be supportive of RR. I mean , who else is going to take a chance on releasing this obscure stuff?

 

RR will have 200 releases by the end of the year , if you can't see that RR is making a dent in the industry then I don't know what to tell you.

 

200 releases at 100 units each or 20 releases at 1,000 units each?

 

Big difference.

 

Manicego. Sometimes in life you have to take risks for the things you believe in. It's not about greed or money , it's about principle.

 

The majority of these bands got shafted by either labels or management companies 15,20,25 years ago and some are STILL being shafted by bootleg labels or even legit labels that seem to have a difficult time pulling out the checkbook at royalty time.

 

(example: Mark Gendel who owns 50% of the first RPM album hasn't seen a dime from the MTM re-issue - they told us they have sold 2500 units - WHERE'S THE MONEY? Everyone who bought that album didn't help the artist at all , and lined the pockets of Mario and MTM. I have plenty more examples like this.)

 

RR is changing the independent music scene , one step at a time , by paying the bands what they are due.

 

They DESERVE to make a little return off their music.

 

Don't you think?

[Mullethead]

communicating what?

 

I think maybe he means that since there is such a small percentage of people who are passionate about our kind of music (compared to all the idiots out there who are into country, rap, etc...), you would think that we would be more supportive of each other instead of at each other's throats all the time.

 

 

 

Yeah, what he said.

 

 

JL

 

 

I agree with you all about getting along. It's a shame that everytime Retrospect is brought up it seems to turn into an argument. I feel like the argument in this thread might of been my fault. I was just saying that I understand both sides of the argument. I knew before I submitted that original post that I shouldn't do it and now it's caused a another day of arguments. I'm sorry if it was me that caused this, I was just giving my honest opinion.

 

 

Nah, you didn't cause anything. This seed was planted before you ever joined the site. I'm growing quite tired of all the childish argueing. I love this kind of music and support everyone who is trying to get it to the people. I would just rather everyone get along instead of taking jabs at one another.

 

 

JL

[Geoff]

Yeah, I can't believe even this thread turned into another one of these. It was going so nicely.

[David]

It always amazes me that Sam's defense is "if other record labels can bootleg and rip off bands, well why then can't I do it"!! Haven't you ever heard of the term "2 wrongs don't make a right"??

 

Unbelievable

[Retrospect Records]

the difference David , is that I'm not ripping anyone off.

 

Your life is about to be turned upside down my friend.

 

woohoo.

[Guest manicego]

>> RR will have 200 releases by the end of the year , if you can't see that RR is making a dent in the industry then I don't know what to tell you.

 

200 releases at 100 units each or 20 releases at 1,000 units each?

 

Big difference. <<

 

Releasing a ton of product makes no dent in the industry, though. I would MUCH rather move 1,000 copies of 20 albums than have a 200 + product catalogue that shows virtually no marketplace impact. That's just personal opinion though and you are entitled to yours.

 

>> Manicego. Sometimes in life you have to take risks for the things you believe in. It's not about greed or money , it's about principle.

 

The majority of these bands got shafted by either labels or management companies 15,20,25 years ago and some are STILL being shafted by bootleg labels or even legit labels that seem to have a difficult time pulling out the checkbook at royalty time. <<

 

Well, "shafted" is subjective. When you get an advance in the 5 figure range (or higher in some cases), get a weekly "allowance" (ie "per diem") when you're recording and on the road and get to see the world basically for free you have to pay that money back. If you don't recoup then well, you don't make money on the backend of the deal. Better save up that advance! If your mgmt company is crazy enough to advance you money then you have to pay that back, as well. They don't just give you cash out of their goodness (blackness?) of their hearts.

 

>> (example: Mark Gendel who owns 50% of the first RPM album hasn't seen a dime from the MTM re-issue - they told us they have sold 2500 units - WHERE'S THE MONEY? Everyone who bought that album didn't help the artist at all , and lined the pockets of Mario and MTM. I have plenty more examples like this.) <<

 

Totally different to the scenario I have above. But yes, as you put it here, that's a pretty screwed up situation and it sucks for that band.

 

>> RR is changing the independent music scene , one step at a time , by paying the bands what they are due.

 

They DESERVE to make a little return off their music.

 

Don't you think? <<

 

Well, yes, if it's done above board. If it's a band that never made it past the local level and you strike a deal with them to release whatever it is they have sitting around in their basements and they can make a few dollars off of it and get a CD out of the deal to pat themselves on the back with then that's great. As I mentioned before I personally know of one band (above the local level) that you don't have an agreement with yet have on your site. One of the band members and I were actually discussing this the other night. I'm not going to mention the band unless said band member wants that done (I've had several requests to name them) but I'm not here to cause a shitstorm and turn this into another slagging off thread. I'm just discussing stuff ..... calmly.

[melodicrockoz]

My personal opinion is that anyone who is a Melodic Rock fan should be supportive of RR. I mean , who else is going to take a chance on releasing this obscure stuff?

 

I WHOLEHEARTED AGREE WITH YOU & BELIEVE ME I AM DOING EVERYTHING I CAN TO GET EVERY RETROSPECT CD ISSUED. They are fabbulous!!!

 

I am also aware of an Australian independant label called Suncity records who are releasing obscure stuff.

 

It is fantastic that we the hardcore fans of obscure AOR / melodic Rock have atleast 2 fantastic labels to count on to build our collections.

 

 

 

Keep up the good work guys

[Retrospect Records]

Firstly , thanks to melodicrockoz for his support. It is much appreciated and rewarding to deal with true music fans.

 

Now let me respond to manicego....

 

 

"Releasing a ton of product makes no dent in the industry, though. I would MUCH rather move 1,000 copies of 20 albums than have a 200 + product catalogue that shows virtually no marketplace impact. That's just personal opinion though and you are entitled to yours."

 

Yep , I definitely cannot agree with you here.

 

 

"Well, "shafted" is subjective."

 

Subjective to the artist - yes - not to me or you.

 

 

"When you get an advance in the 5 figure range (or higher in some cases), get a weekly "allowance" (ie "per diem") when you're recording and on the road and get to see the world basically for free you have to pay that money back. If you don't recoup then well, you don't make money on the backend of the deal. Better save up that advance! If your mgmt company is crazy enough to advance you money then you have to pay that back, as well. They don't just give you cash out of their goodness (blackness?) of their hearts."

 

I don't have any bands on the label that recieved a five figure advance. Even Herman Rarebell didn't get a five figure advance for his 1985 solo album. So your point is moot in the Retrospect world.

 

 

 

"Totally different to the scenario I have above. But yes, as you put it here, that's a pretty screwed up situation and it sucks for that band."

 

As is the case for MOST bands. The buck stops here.

 

 

"Well, yes, if it's done above board. If it's a band that never made it past the local level and you strike a deal with them to release whatever it is they have sitting around in their basements and they can make a few dollars off of it and get a CD out of the deal to pat themselves on the back with then that's great. As I mentioned before I personally know of one band (above the local level) that you don't have an agreement with yet have on your site. One of the band members and I were actually discussing this the other night. I'm not going to mention the band unless said band member wants that done (I've had several requests to name them) but I'm not here to cause a shitstorm and turn this into another slagging off thread. I'm just discussing stuff ..... calmly."

 

And that is fair enough , If any band feels they are getting 'shafted' by Retrospect then we would do whatever we could to make it right for all parties involved (e.g. Sweet Teaze). If you know someone who feels they are not getting their 'cut' then I encourage you to have them contact RR and discuss the situation.

I can tell you first-hand that we just sent out almost $6,000 in royalties to the various artists signed with us. Gee , I wonder what other indie labels do that? I know a few that aren't. Sad.

 

I can also tell you that a few snakes have come out of the closet and claimed they were owed money for a re-issue we put out. When there is money at stake , every ex-musician , ex-manager , ex-girlfriend thinks they are owed a piece of the pie.

I can guarantee that EVERY label goes through that scenario.

 

This is all a learning process - you make mistakes , you learn , you move on. Every business has their ups and downs but I will guarantee you that the Retrospect team (made up of at least 8 of us and growing) are not going anywhere.

 

Peace.

 

 

 

 

Let me make one more point. Many labels sign bands for a tax write-off so they are technically giving money away for free.

 

Example...

 

Sam and Aaron (recordjnky) were both signed to Warner/Chappell for 5 years. Warner paid them $10000 a year and recorded umpteen times in an extremely expensive studio in Nashville. The songs ended up getting shelved , unfortunately.

 

Warner did not ask Aaron and Sam to return the money.

 

Now let's add another scenario into the mix...

 

Retrospect Records has just signed the band MASS. Mass recorded an album for a particular label in 1983 (before New Birth). Do you think it's right for a now-defunct label to continue to keep that release from the public?

 

I DON'T.

 

And that's why we are releasing it , right along with the entire Mass back catalog.

[Vish]

the difference David , is that (I'm) not ripping anyone off.

 

So we pretty much know who Sam is then on this board

[Retrospect Records]

I've said this a hundred times. There are 2 computers at the Retrospect office , which we all use. Sam uses it the least as he's on the phone most of the day , but sometimes he'll pipe in.

[heavyharmonies]

Retrospect Records has just signed the band MASS. Mass recorded an album for a particular label in 1983 (before New Birth). Do you think it's right for a now-defunct label to continue to keep that release from the public?

 

I DON'T.

 

And that's why we are releasing it , right along with the entire Mass back catalog.

 

No offense Sam, but it's not a matter of being "right" or "wrong" in anyone's eyes, but a legal matter as to whom the rights revert to upon the termination of the record label as a business entity. I assume that would be specified in the original contract or in the dissolution of the label; i.e., it's possible that the assets of the label (which could include rights to an artist's catalog) were sold off as part of bankruptcy proceedings to another entity.

 

Just because you "don't think it's right" that a label (active or otherwise) retains rights to an album for an extended period, even if they do not opt to exercise those rights and reissue the album, does not give anyone the right to circumvent a contract in place.

 

Now if the rights legally revert back to the band and they then opt to sign with you, then all is well and good...

 

I'm just saying that it's not as simple as it may seem.

 

-Dan

[glam_junkie]

bootleg this and bootleg that - blah blah blah blah blah

 

NO BOOTS.

 

 

Is the BOSS cd a boot?

And if not, can I ask who has sanctioned it's re-release.

[Retrospect Records]

Boss is an interesting one. I am not saying it's a boot , but it's not 100% legit either.

 

I do know this much . it has almost sold out....

[glam_junkie]

Boss is an interesting one. I am not saying it's a boot , but it's not 100% legit either.

 

I do know this much . it has almost sold out....

 

 

When you say 'sold out'... how many copies were made? 50, 100, 1000...?

[LV KIX]

Yeah... I missed out on the Boss release.

[heavyharmonies]

Boss is an interesting one. I am not saying it's a boot , but it's not 100% legit either.

 

I do know this much . it has almost sold out....

 

What?

 

It's either a bootleg or it isn't. It's on the Retrospect label, so according to everything you've been saying here it couldn't possibly be a bootleg.

 

What does "not 100% legit" mean? To me that means "BOOTLEG".

 

You seem to be contradicting yourself at every turn.

 

-Dan

[glockose]

THANK YOU!!!!!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HONESTY

 

"not 100% legit"

 

THANK YOU AGAIN

[Retrospect Records]

Boss is an interesting one. I am not saying it's a boot , but it's not 100% legit either.

 

I do know this much . it has almost sold out....

 

 

When you say 'sold out'... how many copies were made? 50, 100, 1000...?

 

100

 

Let's put it this very simply since you guys just have a hard time with processing information.

 

The right people are getting paid. The wrong people aren't getting paid.

 

Capiche?

[glockose]

OH THAT'S GREAT! THANK YOU AGAIN

 

First you mention "Tax scam"

and now "Capiche"

 

It's the English Cd mafia

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

I need to change that

Mafia might be takin in a neg way.

 

Hows "The Vegas Rodinhood"

 

That way its not a Negative thing Robinhood was loved

[heavyharmonies]

Let's put it this very simply since you guys just have a hard time with processing information.

 

The right people are getting paid. The wrong people aren't getting paid.

 

Capiche?

 

Sorry, no. I don't understand.

 

Since Craig Csongrady, who owns the rights to the album and was a performer on the album was never contacted about this "reissue" and isn't getting paid from it, I guess he's one of the "wrong people".

 

So who exactly are the "right people" that are getting paid, other than yourself?

 

I'm getting tired of all the tapdancing, Sam... I've been trying to keep from openly taking sides, but you're making it difficult as hell.

 

-Dan

[Retrospect Records]

Dan , if you think it's any of your business who Retrospect sends checks to then you are sadly mistaken.

 

If Craig feels like he's been 'shafted' by Retrospect then why hasn't he contacted us?

[glam_junkie]

Boss is an interesting one. I am not saying it's a boot , but it's not 100% legit either.

 

I do know this much . it has almost sold out....

 

 

When you say 'sold out'... how many copies were made? 50, 100, 1000...?

 

100

 

Let's put it this very simply since you guys just have a hard time with processing information.

 

The right people are getting paid. The wrong people aren't getting paid.

 

Capiche?

 

I have never been involved in any of the volatile RR discussion, although when I know something is incorrect I am going to say ... and your statement above about the 'right people' getting paid for the BOSS release is categorically incorrect from the information I have.

 

The only way I can see your comment as being true from "your perspective" is if either:

a) you have done a deal with and individual from the band (who unfortunately doesn't have the rights to the album), who has negelcted to tell the other band members

or... the band forgot they have actually done a distribution deal with you.

c) or... you do not consider the band as the 'right' people to be getting paid.

 

Now what that installs in my mind is that if the deal with BOSS is not legit (IMO, from the knowledge I have) then what's to say all the other deals RR claim to have with the bands are legit either?

 

Do not take this as an attack on your operations, simply a view from an outsider, and I would be happy if any of the opinions I have stated (that may be incorrect) can be corrected.

[heavyharmonies]

If Craig feels like he's been 'shafted' by Retrospect then why hasn't he contacted us?

 

Sam, if you cannot see how utterly twisted this logic is, any further discussion is fruitless.

 

You're implying that as long as whomever owns the legal rights to the material you're "reissuing" doesn't contact you, everything is fine and dandy. In other words, release whatever you want whenever you want, and *IF* anyone complains, then you'll worry about paying people their fair share... as opposed to getting a legal contract in advance from the parties who own the rights. It's somehow THEIR obligation to come find you rather than YOU contacting them to legally reissue material.

 

It's a play on the old adage "it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission" but completely and utterly warped.

 

-Dan

[Retrospect Records]

Boss is an interesting one. I am not saying it's a boot , but it's not 100% legit either.

 

I do know this much . it has almost sold out....

 

 

When you say 'sold out'... how many copies were made? 50, 100, 1000...?

 

100

 

Let's put it this very simply since you guys just have a hard time with processing information.

 

The right people are getting paid. The wrong people aren't getting paid.

 

Capiche?

 

I have never been involved in any of the volatile RR discussion, although when I know something is incorrect I am going to say ... and your statement above about the 'right people' getting paid for the BOSS release is categorically incorrect from the information I have.

 

The only way I can see your comment as being true from "your perspective" is if either:

a) you have done a deal with and individual from the band (who unfortunately doesn't have the rights to the album), who has negelcted to tell the other band members

or... the band forgot they have actually done a distribution deal with you.

c) or... you do not consider the band as the 'right' people to be getting paid.

 

Now what that installs in my mind is that if the deal with BOSS is not legit (IMO, from the knowledge I have) then what's to say all the other deals RR claim to have with the bands are legit either?

 

Do not take this as an attack on your operations, simply a view from an outsider, and I would be happy if any of the opinions I have stated (that may be incorrect) can be corrected.

 

We feel at RR that the Boss deal is legit. If Craig isn't seeing anything out of our deal then we would gladly change that to suit his needs.

 

If you feel RR is shafting other bands then there is nothing stopping you from contacting them and asking , is there?