The Interesting Thread!

[longhairmike74]

i've come up with a proposed reroute for the Tour De France

 

[JamesEagle]

Not sure I'd call this interesting, more f***ing funny as far as I'm concerned:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306655/Ding-Dong-The-Witch-Is-Dead-BBC-dilemma-playing-song-Margaret-Thatcher-dies.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

 

Surely they have to play the song? I think I need to download it tonight...

 

[Glen]

Not sure I'd call this interesting, more f***ing funny as far as I'm concerned:

 

http://www.dailymail...s_campaign=1490

 

Surely they have to play the song? I think I need to download it tonight...

 

 

People should have a bit more respect for the dead.

[JamesEagle]

Not sure I'd call this interesting, more f***ing funny as far as I'm concerned:

 

http://www.dailymail...s_campaign=1490

 

Surely they have to play the song? I think I need to download it tonight...

 

 

People should have a bit more respect for the dead.

 

I have to say, in this instance, I very strongly disagree.

 

I never thought I'd find myself quoting Russell Brand, but I think he has summed it up perfectly:

 

"Is that what made her so formidable, her ability to ignore the suffering of others? Given the nature of her legacy "survival of the fittest" – a phrase that Darwin himself only used twice in On the Origin of Species, compared to hundreds of references to altruism, love and cooperation, it isn't surprising that there are parties tonight in Liverpool, Glasgow and Brixton – from where are they to have learned compassion and forgiveness?

 

Her death must be sad for the handful of people she was nice to and the rich people who got richer under her stewardship. It isn't sad for anyone else.... All of us that grew up under Thatcher were taught that it is good to be selfish, that other people's pain is not your problem, that pain is in fact a weakness and suffering is deserved and shameful."

 

I have no more respect for the dead in this case than I have for a certain Mr Hitler.

[Jez]

Not sure I'd call this interesting, more f***ing funny as far as I'm concerned:

 

http://www.dailymail...s_campaign=1490

 

Surely they have to play the song? I think I need to download it tonight...

 

 

People should have a bit more respect for the dead.

 

 

 

Her death must be sad for the handful of people she was nice to and the rich people who got richer under her stewardship. It isn't sad for anyone else.... All of us that grew up under Thatcher were taught that it is good to be selfish, that other people's pain is not your problem, that pain is in fact a weakness and suffering is deserved and shameful."

 

 

..And my god did a lot of families suffer. Respect the dead..generally yes, but respect has to be earnt, so in this instance absolutely not. I'm not dancing around in the street, as this is taking things too far imo, but I Couldn't have said it better than the above statement.

[JamesEagle]

 

..And my god did a lot of families suffer. Respect the dead..generally yes, but respect has to be earnt, so in this instance absolutely not. I'm not dancing around in the street, as this is taking things too far imo, but I Couldn't have said it better than the above statement.

 

My parents almost lost their house, but others suffered much, much more at her hands. It's heartbreaking to see the old photographs of miners being arrested, when all they were trying to do was protect and feed their families.

 

Plus a lot of the trouble we are in now wouldn't be so bad if she hadn't privatised everything. How much money would the Government be bringing in if telecoms, for example, hadn't been sold off for short-term profit?

 

[Glen]

I'm not getting into a political argument here.

 

She did good and bad things during her time, but whatever you think people shouldn't be downloading ding fucking dong. It's pathetic.

 

Also comparing her to a nazi is also in very poor taste. Shame on you Mr Bushnell

[Glen]

I will say one thing though - nobody seems to remember just how fuckin awful it was in the 70s before she came to power - reflect on that for a while.

 

Britain was the laughing stock of Europe - strangled and held to ransom by greedy unions, winters of discontent, soaring inflation, debt spiralling out of control, 3 day working week, power cuts at 7pm.

 

Yeah people always conveniently forget that.

 

Falklands war bad? Yeah maybe u wouldn't feel

Like that if u were one of the poor bastards living there.

 

Also remember the cold war - scary wasn't it - well she was instrumental in ending it.

 

Just saying .......

[JamesEagle]

Also comparing her to a nazi is also in very poor taste. Shame on you Mr Bushnell

 

You're right, in that we shouldn't debate this here. If you research what a psycopath is, she fits the description almost exactly. Clever at manipulating people, doing anything to get her own way, outwardly charming, having no regard for others' feelings, not feeling guilt, etc etc. Psycopaths succeed in society, as they don't have the same moral parameters as the rest of us. There are many of them in powerful positions, in politics and in business. She was one. Hitler was one. Sorry, but I'm not seeing a big difference. A lack of empathy means someone is capable of pretty much anything.

 

Anyway, happy to agree to disagree on this one and move on to discuss far more important things, like 'Paradise' being a far better Tesla song than 'Changes'.

[Glen]

Yeah you're wrong on that too lol

[Wotty]

The Poll Tax,more than anything,screwed her Prime Minister-ship..........

[Jez]

Uhh Ohhh..The fucking tories are in!!

[Glen]

Uhh Ohhh..The fucking tories are in!!

 

Well you of all people must remember how shit it was in the late seventies when labour were in power - you can't dispute that surely??

 

In fact she inherited much of the same shit that Cameron inherited this time round - soaring inflation, massive debt, recession - mmm I spot a theme here

 

;-)

 

Just saying....

 

A lot of people hate her for selling off industry and spending cuts but it was necessary to reduce the national debt - the coal mines were losing money hand over fist and were subsidised by tax payers money - ironic that it was actually cheaper to import coal than continue to produce it locally

 

People also moan about hight interest rates and losing homes - that had nothing to do with her policies it was as a result of the actions of the US fed bank to deal with their recession.

 

People should wise up and get their facts straight before pointing accusing fingers at dead people.

 

[Jez]

This should keep you busy for a while. Over and out.

 

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment

2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry

3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws

4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren

5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)

6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration

7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)

8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million

9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands

10. The poll tax

11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad

12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War

13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture

14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS

15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits

16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA

17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control

18. Section 28

19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"

20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers

21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population

22. She opposed the reunification of Germany

23. She invented Quangos

24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%

25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister

26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech

27. The Al Yamamah contract

28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet

29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike

30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%

31. BSE

32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession

33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process

34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa

35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin

36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher

37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion

38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage

39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.

40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education

41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions

42. 21.9% inflation

[Glen]

Well copied and pasted ;-)

 

I bet you can't wait for my reply, which will be all my own words.

 

There is some in there which is of course bad but a hell of a lot which is very blinkered.

[longhairmike74]

i've used a Toro mulcher, and a Black & Decker edger,, but never a Margaret thatcher...

there's just so many lawn tools,, who could possibly need them all?

[Jez]

Well copied and pasted ;-)

 

I bet you can't wait for my reply, which will be all my own words.

 

There is some in there which is of course bad but a hell of a lot which is very blinkered.

 

The above list pretty accurately summarises,, so it doesn't really matter where the source material comes from tbh. I can honestly wait for your reply, which I know will be exactly what I expect it to be, so not really worth continuing tbh. As I said over and out.

[Glen]

Well copied and pasted ;-)

 

I bet you can't wait for my reply, which will be all my own words.

 

There is some in there which is of course bad but a hell of a lot which is very blinkered.

 

The above list pretty accurately summarises,, so it doesn't really matter where the source material comes from tbh. I can honestly wait for your reply, which I know will be exactly what I expect it to be, so not really worth continuing tbh. As I said over and out.

 

What u mean most of the economic truth behind those statements rather than isolated opinions with no explanation

 

Like what's the point of putting an inflation % without trying to explain why it actually happened.

 

That is actually what annoys me about the youth of today is that they jump on the Thatcher hate band wagon based on a load of loose info without actually bothering to investigate what was actually happening in Britain in the lead up to her period in government.

[JamesEagle]

Uhh Ohhh..The fucking tories are in!!

 

In fact she inherited much of the same shit that Cameron inherited this time round - soaring inflation, massive debt, recession - mmm I spot a theme here

 

 

...and it's the same now as it was then. The honest, working average-wage families suffer. The Tories care about no one but their rich mates and nothing but lining their own pockets. I don't think Labour are much better, in fact I think politicians are almost all self-serving, amoral, superficial beings who do next to nothing for the common good. But Labour are far less mercenary and uncaring than the Tories. Thatcher was as bad as it gets, utterly heartless, but Cameron isn't a great deal better. I don't understand how the people of this country can allow people who behaved as they did in the Bullingdon Club become the Prime Minister, Chancellor and Mayor of London!

[Glen]

Someone who has to put austerity measures into play to reduce a nations deficit will always be remembered in history as being heartless, against the poor etc.

 

Somehow the people or parties that created that deficit get away with it unscathed.

 

No names mentioned.

[Glen]

Lest we forget. Still think the bashing of the unions was bad. Seriously it was the best thing that ever happened in this country -

 

The Winter of Discontent

In the late 1970s, inflation had continued to be a problem; with a combination of rising oil prices and rising nominal wages. Again the government sought to control the wage inflation by imposing wage caps. But, again the unions were in no mood for stiff wage settlements. Strike action broke out across the country, extending from the industrial heartlands to the public sector. Public servants from dustbin men to grave diggers in Liverpool went on strike. Unburied coffins in Liverpool piled up, and in cities across the UK, garbage went uncollected. Not for nothing, was that period of strike action called the 'Winter of Discontent'. It seemed the government was unable to control either inflation or the strike action. A feeling of powerlessness pervaded the country.

[JamesEagle]

Someone who has to put austerity measures into play to reduce a nations deficit will always be remembered in history as being heartless, against the poor etc.

 

Somehow the people or parties that created that deficit get away with it unscathed.

 

No names mentioned.

 

"Has to"? Really?

 

No, austerity measures don't get you out of recession, as proven by the current Government!!!

 

What you need is some industry to support the recovery and encourage growth. But hang, on we don't have any industry in this country. And who got rid of it? That would be your Lady Thatcher.

 

Ding Dong indeed.

[JamesEagle]

Still think the bashing of the unions was bad.

 

Yes. I do. Because if the unions had too much power then, it has gone much too far the other way.

 

The terms of my employment are changed and I am powerless. The union is powerless. I earn less now than I have for five years and the bills have gone up dramatically. Through no fault of my own, I cannot take my children on holiday. I can no longer fund my daughter attending karate classes, which may have given her the ability to defend herself at a crucial moment. My son cannot do organised sports. They never get to go to restaurants. And there are people far, far worse off than me. Is this fair? Tell, me what have children done to deserve this? And is it getting us out of recession? No, it f***ing isn't!

 

And I'll keep going on about this - how can we allow people who behaved as Cameron, Osborne and Johnson did in the Bullingdon Club run our country???

[Glen]

Still think the bashing of the unions was bad.

 

Yes. I do. Because if the unions had too much power then, it has gone much too far the other way.

 

The terms of my employment are changed and I am powerless. The union is powerless. I earn less now than I have for five years and the bills have gone up dramatically. Through no fault of my own, I cannot take my children on holiday. I can no longer fund my daughter attending karate classes, which may have given her the ability to defend herself at a crucial moment. My son cannot do organised sports. They never get to go to restaurants. And there are people far, far worse off than me. Is this fair? Tell, me what have children done to deserve this? And is it getting us out of recession? No, it f***ing isn't!

 

And I'll keep going on about this - how can we allow people who behaved as Cameron, Osborne and Johnson did in the Bullingdon Club run our country???

 

Oh god you really dont get this do you.........do you actually remember the late 70s, or were you high on drugs lol.

 

The problem was that Unions had so much power that they controlled the country - insisting that their members had inflation busting pay rises and holding the country to ransom if they didnt get their way. It just didnt work. You talk about Briain having no industry anymore, but why would you keep as industry like coal mining which was losing money hand over fist and being subsidised by tax payers money, and then having unions insisting their members get x, y and z and get their cake and eat it.

 

Labour realised in the late 70s that pay needed to be frozen or at least increases reduced to bare minimum because the country was grinding to a halt....they couldnt do it though cos the unions had too much control. And they were too limp to take the unions on.

 

You do remember of course that Scargill was offered several deals by the conservative government which would have been ok for the coal miners, but no....too bloody minded, he had to take it to the streets....it was a bloody disgrace what he did.

 

Capiche.

[Glen]

I'll add just one more thing - the closest we get these days to what it was like in the 70s is the rail unions which still have enormous power.

 

Do you think its right that Bob Crow can hold the country to ransom during the Olympics by insisting that rail workers get massive bonuses 'just for doing their job' while the Olympics are on. Basically doing the same shifts that they normally did.

 

Cos that is what happened. It was 'either you do this or there will no rail services during the Olympics'.

 

I didnt get a big bonus for going to work while the Olympics were on.

 

This a classic example of a union having too much power and exactly the sort of thing that went on years ago.

 

You tell me if that is right.