Jump to content

A Possible Anecdote.....


Recommended Posts

I've been reading from afar the soap opera concerning Vegasmetal and those that were accusing him of selling bootlegs on eBay and I've posted this....not to, in so much, 'defend' Vegasmetal...but to post some observations at what occurred over the weekend. I would have posted sooner....but, as some of you know, I've been ill the last few days and to type something of this length would have been too cumbersome.

 

So...let me begin.

 

A poster......one who has just recently registered amongst the many members here to make a claim against an eBay seller who they claim must be selling 'bootlegs'. They provide no evidence that 'bootlegs' are indeed being sold....but they've made comparisons to ones they already have and thus infer that it must be a 'bootleg' copy. Now....no one really knows who this poster is....we've never heard of them before...and they make no inclination to tell us who they are.

 

Nothing much is said....until the owner of this website, Dan...decides to make mention that he, too, has 'heard' of rumblings of this nature. Now...mind you....no evidence had been produced up to that point that, in fact, Vegasmetal was selling 'bootlegs'...simply some 'anonymous' person making a claim. And Dan...'hearing' that it may be true.

 

Of course....the seller sees this and becomes visibly angered and, in much the same fashion as I've known him for many years....lets out his tirade against the accusers...all of which at THIS time have offered no substantial proof of their allegation. But.....because of the manner in which Vegasmetal is unable to defend himself *Obviously he is not adept at this...and uses the only means he knows....vulgarity, insults and information to support his place in the 'eBay'..or music world* he becomes an easy target for those that obviously were offended by his lack of tact and or just wanted to add their two cents to the situation to take 'potshots' at someone who obviously is angered...and unable to reasonably discuss the situation. To see members of this board....who knew nothing of the situation join in on the attacks was eye opening...to say the least.

 

Of course....as time goes by...and with someone trying to defend themself from obviously innaccurate accusastions of BOOTLEGGING...which, as everyone knows, was the ORGINAL thrust of the argument, we find someone who actually asks a legitimate question. Maybe they're 're-issues'? Wel....this lesser charge STILL sends immense 'shockwaves' through the attackers and fuels them to ask...again...and again.....if they, in fact were. As if it vilified their original attack that this person was a BOOTLEGGER. And after the dust settles.....we come to the conclusion....and by admittance by the seller that he may in fact have the AUTHORITY from the copyright holders to SELL these items. Did it not occur to anyone throughout all of your accusations that this was possibly the case???!!! No...most of you were too busy arguing...screaming...calling names, etc....and so was Vegasmetal. It was all very childish and it seems you all had agendas OTHER than the orginal crux which was 'bootlegging'.

 

So....after the INITIAL allegation was found to be UNTRUE, the masses decide that not disclosing this sellers items were possibly 'reissues' that he should be lynched for such....and that he is taking advantage of eBay buyers. But...one such poster, Delbert..even after we've learned that they are probably 'reissues', he decides to implicate to Vegasmetal that the RIAA can be contacted and that people are held liable...they can go to jail, etc.....................for WHAT? Not disclosing in an eBay auction that the cds are 'reissues'??!!! I think not.....nice try though. I feel that you were fueling the fire because you felt you were 'duped' by Vegasmetal and this led to your ire in posting the information to contact the RIAA and it's branch of piracy, etc. even though we've already learned that they're probably not bootlegs. I believe you let your argument get 'personal', Delbert....and when you did that, you erred. Because basically, if Vegasmetal has permission from the proper entities like he has suggested, then it would be a waste of time to contact anyone.....wouldn't it? And all of your huffing and puffing would have accomplished what?? Well....it would surely cause those that read these boards who didn't know any better that....and by inference AND suggestion, that Vegasmetal is indeed a crook and he should go to jail. Why all the venom?

 

Well...that leads me to my next bit of insight. Delbert....Koogles....two of the most vociferous attackers of Vegasmetal...well........you are BOTH sellers of the same type of musich that Vegasmetal is on eBay....are you not? Interesting then...that your venom and accusations spoke the loudest...even to the point of typing in the contacts for the RIAA and suggesting that someone could easily pursue legal action against someone who is guilty of what?? Not saying that two...or one....of the items he's selling *amongst hundreds* are not being presented properly in his auction information block??!! They're not mentioning in the auction that the cds are reiusses. Well, isn't that interesing. Why....you may ask?

 

Well....if you, Delbert...or Koogles were so ADAMANT about crusading for the righteousness of eBay sellers then surely you would go after other sellers for the same issues. Hell.....you would even want to go after them for issues such as, not putting the year of release in the information.....or better yet, going after those eBay sellers who list NO INFORMATION in their itiems their selling. That would be an easy crusade wouldn't it. In fact, I would think....that since both of you 'sellers' care so much you would go after those sellers that contact the bands directly and then sell their products on eBay for prices far in excess of what you could actually get them from the band for. Hey...that would be an idea...wouldn't it. I mean.....surely that is JUST AS MISLEADING as is something as simple as not putting the cd information in the ad for the auction? Wouldn't you say? I mean...buying cds from a website....or the band themself and then reselling on eBay for BIG BUCKS! Hell...that would be taking the money right out of the bands coffers...now, wouldn't it? That is...unless they know that those eBay sellers are doing so....with their permission. Hey...you might even want to start attacking the cdr traders!!! I've seen many guys posting their cds for cdr trades....and you know what?? *gasp*.....they are even asking for cdrs of NEW releases!!!!!!!! Ahhh...just think of all the guilty mo-fos you could nab!!!! Hey....why not start right at this message board...and then just move on to the melodcorck boards and start attacking those guys for doing such 'bad' things and depriving the bands of their money. I think that would be a great idea and you guys seem to have just enough energy to do a kick ass job!!!

 

In fact, now that I think of it....Delbert...because I've mentioned this to you in a prior thread and you did not respond. Why don't you look into those Persia cds you sell from the that 'Dave' guy from Iron Works? I've never seen anything disclosed in your auction for that particular cd that indicates it's a reissue either....because *MY* original Persia cd didn't come in a jewel case like the ones you auction off....it came in a matchbook style pack with little matches on the inside. And what was really cool...is it had a striking mat on the inside just like you'd find in a real book of matches. I mean...if we're going by differences here...then surely you must be selling 'bootlegs'. I mean...after all, that was how AOR guy accused Vegasmetal inititally. Maybe you should look into that....after all, we're trying to help the unassuming buyer....right? Maybe you should tell all of your potential bidders in your auctions that you actually get them by using the 'buy it now' feature whenever that seller sells them... Oh...and maybe you should indicate how much you buy them 'now' for. I mean...if we're trying to look after the innocent eBay buyer...that would only be the nice thing to do....right?? A crusade for the ages.....indeed....

 

The bottom line to this story is that it's easy to attack someone. It's easy to make accusations and it is difficult to hear the truth. We've seen if from both sides of the coin....haven't we folks?

 

The fact remains that there is no law that states you have to put ANY information in your eBay auctions...and some sellers do just that. They leave it up to people to email them if they have questions. The rule of thumb, however....is usually if it looks to good to be true....then it probably is. Message board wars come and go....there are always 'SELLER vs. SELLER' wars.....and there are ALWAYS two sides to the story. And hell....if you're an Extreme fan...then there are III. Just remember, eBayers....email potential sellers and ask questions.....if you don't get a reply....then be wary.

 

And as Dan would say..... 'Buyer Beware'....

 

 

What, truly have we learned from this? Well, not a whole heckuva lot actually.

 

We learned that Vegasmetal has no tact...and is beligerent and vulgar *already knew that*.

 

We learned that Vegasmetal has not stated in two of his items...or possibly one *I can't remember* that they are reissues.

 

We learned that it's easy to attack someone that isn't so adept at defending themselves.

 

We learned that Vegasmetal isn't the only eBay seller who does not provide all of the information in their auctions.

 

And...we learned that there is usually more than one side to the story.

 

 

 

 

 

:ninja:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

My advice to people who are not so adept at DEfending themselves would be to not be so OFFending to others... I know you have some level of respect for the dude and I'm totally down with that, but even after the initial outburst he proceeded to give a big :fu: to anyone who dared ask a question. I wouldn't have even bothered saying anything but the whole "I know more people than you", "I'm better than all of you", "I'm a musician", "Who cares about a bunch of homo glam listeners, I'm still making tons of money", and the ever popular "If you mess with me you will be 'compromised'" nonsense... "you will be 'compromised'?" who is this guy, Tom Clancy? Say what you will but he came in all guns blazin' and a few blazed back. He got exactly what he deserved.

 

And the whole thing about "re-issues", I don't have a problem with that so much (especially since I don't buy anything for more than $10 or so) and I'm sure Sam couldn't care less about me just based on that statement alone, but come on now, when asked if they were re-issues he flat out said "no way" and continued to say that until the evidence was piled up to his eyebrows. If he wanted to present a straight up image he might have said, "yeah they're reissues, what of it, if you don't want 'em, don't buy 'em". He had numerous chances to back the fuck off but he chose to continue his attack.

 

It doesn't matter anyway since he's making 3 trillion a day without all of us losers so all's well that ends well... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been reading from afar the soap opera concerning Vegasmetal and those that were accusing him of selling bootlegs on eBay and I've posted this....not to, in so much, 'defend' Vegasmetal...but to post some observations at what occurred over the weekend. I would have posted sooner....but, as some of you know, I've been ill the last few days and to type something of this length would have been too cumbersome.

 

So...let me begin.

 

A poster......one who has just recently registered amongst the many members here to make a claim against an eBay seller who they claim must be selling 'bootlegs'. They provide no evidence that 'bootlegs' are indeed being sold....but they've made comparisons to ones they already have and thus infer that it must be a 'bootleg' copy. Now....no one really knows who this poster is....we've never heard of them before...and they make no inclination to tell us who they are.

 

Nothing much is said....until the owner of this website, Dan...decides to make mention that he, too, has 'heard' of rumblings of this nature. Now...mind you....no evidence had been produced up to that point that, in fact, Vegasmetal was selling 'bootlegs'...simply some 'anonymous' person making a claim. And Dan...'hearing' that it may be true.

 

Of course....the seller sees this and becomes visibly angered and, in much the same fashion as I've known him for many years....lets out his tirade against the accusers...all of which at THIS time have offered no substantial proof of their allegation. But.....because of the manner in which Vegasmetal is unable to defend himself *Obviously he is not adept at this...and uses the only means he knows....vulgarity, insults and information to support his place in the 'eBay'..or music world* he becomes an easy target for those that obviously were offended by his lack of tact and or just wanted to add their two cents to the situation to take 'potshots' at someone who obviously is angered...and unable to reasonably discuss the situation. To see members of this board....who knew nothing of the situation join in on the attacks was eye opening...to say the least.

 

Of course....as time goes by...and with someone trying to defend themself from obviously innaccurate accusastions of BOOTLEGGING...which, as everyone knows, was the ORGINAL thrust of the argument, we find  someone who actually asks a legitimate question. Maybe they're 're-issues'? Wel....this lesser charge STILL sends immense 'shockwaves' through the attackers and fuels them to ask...again...and again.....if they, in fact were. As if it vilified their original attack that this person was a BOOTLEGGER. And after the dust settles.....we come to the conclusion....and by admittance by the seller that he may in fact have the AUTHORITY from the copyright holders to SELL these items. Did it not occur to anyone throughout all of your accusations that this was possibly the case???!!! No...most of you were too busy arguing...screaming...calling names, etc....and so was Vegasmetal. It was all very childish and it seems you all had agendas OTHER than the orginal crux which was 'bootlegging'.

 

So....after the INITIAL allegation was found to be UNTRUE, the masses decide that not disclosing this sellers items were possibly 'reissues' that he should be lynched for such....and that he is taking advantage of eBay buyers. But...one such poster, Delbert..even after we've learned that they are probably 'reissues', he decides to implicate to Vegasmetal that the RIAA can be contacted and that people are held liable...they can go to jail, etc.....................for WHAT? Not disclosing in an eBay auction that the cds are 'reissues'??!!! I think not.....nice try though.  I feel that you were fueling the fire because you felt you were 'duped' by Vegasmetal and this led to your ire in posting the information to contact the RIAA and it's branch of piracy, etc. even though we've already learned that they're probably not bootlegs.  I believe you let your argument get 'personal', Delbert....and when you did that, you erred. Because basically, if Vegasmetal has permission from the proper entities like he has suggested, then it would be a waste of time to contact anyone.....wouldn't it? And all of your huffing and puffing would have accomplished what?? Well....it would surely cause those that read these boards who didn't know any better that....and by inference AND suggestion, that Vegasmetal is indeed a crook and he should go to jail. Why all the venom?

 

Well...that leads me to my next bit of insight. Delbert....Koogles....two of the most vociferous attackers of Vegasmetal...well........you are BOTH sellers of the same type of musich that Vegasmetal is on eBay....are you not?  Interesting then...that your venom and accusations spoke the loudest...even to the point of typing in the contacts for the RIAA and suggesting that someone could easily pursue legal action against someone who is guilty of what?? Not saying that two...or one....of the items he's selling *amongst hundreds* are not being presented properly in his auction information block??!! They're not mentioning in the auction that the cds are reiusses. Well, isn't that interesing. Why....you may ask?

 

Well....if you, Delbert...or Koogles were so ADAMANT about crusading for the righteousness of eBay sellers then surely you would go after other sellers for the same issues. Hell.....you would even want to go after them for issues such as, not putting the year of release in the information.....or better yet, going after those eBay sellers who list NO INFORMATION in their itiems their selling. That would be an easy crusade wouldn't it. In fact, I would think....that since both of you 'sellers' care so much you would go after those sellers that contact the bands directly and then sell their products on eBay for prices far in excess of what you could actually get them from the band for. Hey...that would be an idea...wouldn't it. I mean.....surely that is JUST AS MISLEADING as is something as simple as not putting the cd information in the ad for the auction? Wouldn't you say? I mean...buying cds from a website....or the band themself and then reselling on eBay for BIG BUCKS! Hell...that would be taking the money right out of the bands coffers...now, wouldn't it? That is...unless they know that those eBay sellers are doing so....with their permission. Hey...you might even want to start attacking the cdr traders!!! I've seen many guys posting their cds for cdr trades....and you know what?? *gasp*.....they are even asking for cdrs of NEW releases!!!!!!!! Ahhh...just think of all the guilty mo-fos you could nab!!!! Hey....why not start right at this message board...and then just move on to the melodcorck boards and start attacking those guys for doing such 'bad' things and depriving the bands of their money. I think that would be a great idea and you guys seem to have just enough energy to do a kick ass job!!!

 

In fact, now that I think of it....Delbert...because I've mentioned this to you in a prior thread and you did not respond. Why don't you look into those Persia cds you sell from the that 'Dave' guy from Iron Works? I've never seen anything disclosed in your auction for that particular cd that indicates it's a reissue either....because *MY* original Persia cd didn't come in a jewel case like the ones you auction off....it came in a matchbook style pack with little matches on the inside. And what was really cool...is it had a striking mat on the inside just like you'd find in a real book of matches. I mean...if we're going by differences here...then surely you must be selling 'bootlegs'. I mean...after all, that was how AOR guy accused Vegasmetal inititally. Maybe you should look into that....after all, we're trying to help the unassuming buyer....right? Maybe you should tell all of your potential bidders in your auctions that you actually get them by using the 'buy it now' feature whenever that seller sells them... Oh...and maybe you should indicate how much you buy them 'now' for. I mean...if we're trying to look after the innocent eBay buyer...that would only be the nice thing to do....right?? A crusade for the ages.....indeed....

 

The bottom line to this story is that it's easy to attack someone. It's easy to make accusations and it is difficult to hear the truth. We've seen if from both sides of the coin....haven't we folks?

 

The fact remains that there is no law that states you have to put ANY information in your eBay auctions...and some sellers do just that. They leave it up to people to email them if they have questions. The rule of thumb, however....is usually if it looks to good to be true....then it probably is. Message board wars come and go....there are always 'SELLER vs. SELLER' wars.....and there are ALWAYS two sides to the story. And hell....if you're an Extreme fan...then there are III. Just remember, eBayers....email potential sellers and ask questions.....if you don't get a reply....then be wary.

 

And as Dan would say..... 'Buyer Beware'....

 

 

What, truly have we learned from this? Well, not a whole heckuva lot actually.

 

We learned that Vegasmetal has no tact...and is beligerent and vulgar *already knew that*.

 

We learned that Vegasmetal has not stated in two of his items...or possibly one *I can't remember* that they are reissues.

 

We learned that it's easy to attack someone that isn't so adept at defending themselves.

 

We learned that Vegasmetal isn't the only eBay seller who does not provide all of the information in their auctions.

 

And...we learned that there is usually more than one side to the story.

 

 

 

 

 

:ninja:

Nicely put but the point is why not just say "Yes they might be reissues,but they are not bootlegs!" rather than go off on one like some irate fifteen year old.

 

Simple fact is,if they are reissues being sold as originals then its called obtaining money by deception or fraud.

 

If they are legal reissues there is no problem,but by most retail laws throughout the world you must state this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I can't argue many of your points, I do agree with Blue. People thought they were getting the real deal and ended up with reissues. Buyer beware is a great motto, however one wonders did anybody know of reissues? It seems he was getting original prices. I am one of those that probably should have stayed out of it, and have sent Dan an apology fo my part. I just hate to see people duped. I work in an industry that sees people taken advantage of all the time. It really rubs me the wrong way. I am not a serious buyer, nor one that needs to have originals. I love music. If he were to say in his auctions "possible reissue", and people still paid original prices, so be it.

 

Another thing that ripped me is this. He posts on the message board. Basically advertising, then rips Dan. The man who made the advertising available to him. I understand that he has numerous options to get the word out, but isn't that biting the hand that feeds you?

 

Minus the spandex, Aquanet, and bandanas, I am one of those "glam fags" he mentioned. That part I actually found funny.

 

I can't speak for the other sellers. I am fairly new here. I have not heard of bad practices on their part. That's not to say they don't excist. At this point I have decided to make things that don't concern, not concern me. I truly like everyone here so far. I have learned so much from you freaking you people. This site is amazing. I am certainly not here to make enemys. Plus, I am pretty sure I am so addicted to the site, that I couldn't stand a 30 day ban.

 

Here's hoping no one sees this post as butting in where I don't belong. If you do, I apologize. It is the last time. Back to posting hotties on that thread for me. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JPLRocks, I appreciate your points, although I disagree with one or two of your assertions.

 

Nothing much is said....until the owner of this website, Dan...decides to make mention that he, too, has 'heard' of rumblings of this nature. Now...mind you....no evidence had been produced up to that point that, in fact, Vegasmetal was selling 'bootlegs'...simply some 'anonymous' person making a claim. And Dan...'hearing' that it may be true.

 

I feel I need to re-iterate a clarification I made later in the thread: I'm quite sure of the sources I have on this issue, however I will not "out" them without their approval. I already have assurances from one of them that they will be speaking up on this matter publicly, just not right now.

 

Anyway:

 

If he had come on here and responded in a calm professional manner, something along the lines of "I'm sorry you are mistaken. These are legitimate releases and I have been given the rights to do so by....." rather than "YOU COCKSUCKING MOTHERFUCKERS CAN KISS MY ASS IN HELLLLLLL!!!!!!!" the whole conversation would have been more constructive, and in all likelihood would never have proceeded as far as it did. When tempers get hot, reason goes out the window to a certain extent (I plead guilty there for a stretch).

 

Also his story changed several times throughout the course of the thread; that sets off all sorts of alarm bells to me.

 

Boots, reissues, CDRs, what have you, are all fine, as long as they are not sold, touted, promoted as the real thing. That is the largest issue that was raised, and subsequently *ignored*. An informed buyer purchasing a bootleg/reissue is not a problem and happens every day. Swindling prospective buyers by not disclosing the details about the discs IS the problem.

 

-Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think what bothers me the most, beyond all the "bootlegging" and "reissuing" is the fact that Vegasmetal has not posted a single positive post since he's come to the site. In fact, his very first post referred to someone who hasn't been here in ages as a "cunt" (and of course we girls just HATE that word! :angry: ) in the SUBJECT of the topic and then went on to slam T-Bone and others.

 

If you can't say anything nice, JUST GO THE FUCK AWAY! :eviltongue:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Things did get heated up for the most part, but they hadn't even cooled down from his original attacks in the first 2 posts he made on the message boards. And even before that, all the shit talking he did in the reviews section and was basically unprovoked. When someone of his supposed "connections" in the music business world comes right off the handle and attacks people on a website with no tact what-so-ever, it definately doesn't say anything good about them. He came here with his negative attitude and vulgarity and threw it everywhere without reason. Some of us responded because our peaceful little way of life here was disrupted and we didn't so much care for it, so we in turn, were basically defending ourselves and the integrity of the site.

 

I had apologized in an earlier post about JLP getting dragged into the entire thing and he definately didn't need to be. He was stuck in the middle to begin with and I know I wouldn't want to be there, but I will give him kudo's for handling thing as well as he did and in a very diplomatic way.

 

JLP, as a friend of his, did you ever PM him or talk to him and tell him that it's not the way we do things or handle ourselves on this board?

 

As for VegasMetal, I have never had a problem with him on eBay and he's a very good seller with prompt shipping and great prices. That part was never called into question initially, it was his attitude he displayed on this website.

 

I started a thread about cd reviewers that kinda ticked me off and he was one of them. That was a thread that was somewhat dead for a while before it lit up like a Christmas tree. Some of the initial people I named PM'd me and things were worked out and an agreement was made as well as apologies. It sometimes seems as if the old "Keyboard Cowboys" like to make their presence known on a board and they do so thinking there's no reprecussions for their actions. Those of us who agree to disagree here and civally discuss our likes and differences don't really appreciate the new guy in town spouting off the second he gets here and thats where it gets bad right from the start.

 

Anyway, that thread maybe should have never been started, but at the same time, it kinda called a few people out and made them aware of some of the feelings we had. It can be viewed as both good and bad. It was VegasMetals own actions that prompted the thread in the first place, but somehow I as well as others were labeled assholes for not liking his personality or his approach on posting. That's pretty rich :rolleyes:

 

I had personally already decided that I would not buy from Vegasmetal after his first 2 posts here on the board. No introduction, no hello's, no nothing except for vulgarity and shit slinging right off the bat from him. Not one eBay powerseller or even a average seller has come here without handling themselves in a nice manner. I guess when you look at it, you think of all the people that come to this site because they love this kind of music, and as a seller, these are definately the people you want to look at your auctions. This site couldn't be more beneficial to a seller of this music. To come here and start name calling and insulting anyone and everyone can only hurt your reputation as a seller and a person and thats exactly what he did. Things could have been so much easier for him if he just had better people skills to begin with.

 

As for the bootlegging thread, I have no clue who the first poster was, but when it came right down to it, honesty would have been the best and easiest way out of that one. Instead, it was back to namecalling and insults on his part. Sure it got dragged out alot more than needed, but the questions were asked up front and all he did was change his story over and over and right out lie about it. He made his bed, now he can sleep in it. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been an innocent bystander throughout the entire mess and to even try to defend Vegasmetal is just wrong (sorry JLP). If someone at Topps was to produce Mickey Mantle rookie cards and sell them as originals that would be wrong. As it would be wrong to do the same with collectable comic books, coins, etc. The fact is, the original holds a value because it is hard to find and was produced in a limited number. When someone reproduces a collectable item and sells it as if it were an original, he or she is breaking the law. It is called fraud. If I were Vegasmetal, I would be refunding anyone who purchased these reissues on false pretense and would be apologizing to anyone that would listen. But that's just me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the sad part, he doesn't think he's done anything wrong and somehow he feels he's "entitled" to be able to sell them without disclosing the full info, just because he has some so-called connections. What a bent way of reasoning :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been an innocent bystander throughout the entire mess and to even try to defend Vegasmetal is just wrong (sorry JLP).  If someone at Topps was to produce Mickey Mantle rookie cards and sell them as originals that would be wrong.  As it would be wrong to do the same with collectable comic books, coins, etc.  The fact is, the original holds a value because it is hard to find and was produced in a limited number.  When someone reproduces a collectable item and sells it as if it were an original, he or she is breaking the law.  It is called fraud.  If I were Vegasmetal, I would be refunding anyone who purchased these reissues on false pretense and would be apologizing to anyone that would listen.  But that's just me.

 

Rick,

 

Your analogy would hold true in the instance the the 'reproducer' was NOT given permission. In this case, at lease from what I have inferred, Vegasmetal has permission to sell these items from the proper entity. Like I've mentioned, it seems the only thing he's truly 'guilty' of *at least from what I've read* is that he simply didn't indicate in his auctions if those particular items were 'reissues' or not. And like I tried to illustrate, there are MANY, MANY sellers on eBay that do the same.....or worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

J, my only gripe with the whole thing was, and still is - he's selling reissued stuff as the original and he's not hiding that information - he's clearly saying in the auction "this is the original cd", so yeah - as a potential buyer that just doesn't feel right.

 

If other sellers are withholding information as well (and yes, way TOO many of them do that) that still doesn't make it right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JLPRocks, what you seem to ignore is the fact that he IS doing something wrong. The fact that 'others are doing it' doesn't make it right. It's not okay to rob a bank because you saw on the news that someone else did it, and it's not right to rip off unsuspecting buyers on eBay because 'others are doing it'. That's very twisted logic in defending vegasmetal, and quite misguided.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JLPRocks, what you seem to ignore is the fact that he IS doing something wrong.  The fact that 'others are doing it' doesn't make it right.  It's not okay to rob a bank because you saw on the news that someone else did it, and it's not right to rip off unsuspecting buyers on eBay because 'others are doing it'.  That's very twisted logic in defending vegasmetal, and quite misguided.

 

 

Jodi...

 

Obviously you missed the entire crux of my post. I would think that THAT is misguided....and not on my part.

 

I haven't ignored anything. I mentioned.....if not more than once, that he is selling 'reissues'. I did not ignore that. And I wasn't defending his actions....merely putting them into perspective....and making those people realise that if they're going to condemn one seller, then they must comdemn the others. And...the funny thing is that some of the accusers are no 'angels' themselves. Did you miss that point of my post?

 

So, let me ask you this....just like I asked the other accusers. Are you now going to go on a crusade to rid eBay of all sellers who do not present their auctions in a manner in which you feel is 'not ripping someone off'??? Are you? If not....then my question was...then why become so vehement in your disdain for this particular seller? Did you just feel compelled to jump on this wagon??? In my post, I mentioned many scenarios that take place....DAILY....on eBay...and from sellers that I'm sure YOU KNOW, Jodi....but I see no mention of their names in this stand on this issue. Why is that? I know you know of MANY cdr traders......are you going to condemn them as well. You HAVE to be fair in this....wouldn't you say?

 

However twisted you think my logic was....my point was simple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think JLP's point is, don't attack somebody for doing something you, yourself are doing. I.E. if you are not disclosing that CD's are reissues, don't fault someone for not diclosing their CDs as reissues.

 

Jay...you are a man of great understanding! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JLPRocks, what you seem to ignore is the fact that he IS doing something wrong.  The fact that 'others are doing it' doesn't make it right.  It's not okay to rob a bank because you saw on the news that someone else did it, and it's not right to rip off unsuspecting buyers on eBay because 'others are doing it'.  That's very twisted logic in defending vegasmetal, and quite misguided.

 

 

Jodi...

 

Obviously you missed the entire crux of my post. I would think that THAT is misguided....and not on my part.

 

I haven't ignored anything. I mentioned.....if not more than once, that he is selling 'reissues'. I did not ignore that. And I wasn't defending his actions....merely putting them into perspective....and making those people realise that if they're going to condemn one seller, then they must comdemn the others. And...the funny thing is that some of the accusers are no 'angels' themselves. Did you miss that point of my post?

 

So, let me ask you this....just like I asked the other accusers. Are you now going to go on a crusade to rid eBay of all sellers who do not present their auctions in a manner in which you feel is 'not ripping someone off'??? Are you? If not....then my question was...then why become so vehement in your disdain for this particular seller? Did you just feel compelled to jump on this wagon??? In my post, I mentioned many scenarios that take place....DAILY....on eBay...and from sellers that I'm sure YOU KNOW, Jodi....but I see no mention of their names in this stand on this issue. Why is that? I know you know of MANY cdr traders......are you going to condemn them as well. You HAVE to be fair in this....wouldn't you say?

 

However twisted you think my logic was....my point was simple.

 

JLPRocks,

 

I dont' know if your comments are directed at me, Del, or someone else in the discussion (or all of us). I think I've been clear in my own regard, that when I sell/trade CDRs, that they are disclosed as such. If you have a problem with the selling/trading of CDRs in general, that's fine. We can agree to disagree, and that can be fodder for a whole different discussion. I just don't want anyone getting the impression, no matter how indirectly, that I engage in the same sort of behavior that Sam does. The issue here is misrepresentation.

 

And to answer one of your earlier questions, yes, I *do* hold the omission/misrepresentation of original/re-issue/bootleg pressings against sellers equally, and have in the past reported those that I have been aware of.

 

The problem is that for the most part Ebay won't do anything about it. Since they themselves are not experts in the field, they cannot verify assertions of illegal recordings, and they will not simply take someone's word for it before shutting down a powerseller. Unless the artist themselves files a complaint through official channels, it's almost impossible to get bootlegs pulled. Thus, the most successful bootleggers have carte blanche to continue.

 

About the only thing that can be done, no matter futile it may seem, is to spread the word and hope to educate consumers.

 

-Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, Dan....I wasn't really referring to you.

 

What I did do was try to impress upon those accusers that the other scenarios do exist and if they were so vigilant in condemning Vegasmetal then they should take up their cause with others...otherwise it would seem they have an agenda specifically directed at Vegasmetal.

 

The actual cdr traders that I was referring to come to the message boards SOLELY for the purpose of trading cdrs.....and I've seen tons of lists of new releases on these guys' trade lists. In my observation, those guys take the money out of the artist's hands...directly. Vegasmetal was being accused of such...and I wanted to see if those accusers were ready to stand tall against all injustices...or if they simply were concentrating their energies on this one seller and, in doing so, would seem truly hypocritical in their actions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The actual cdr traders that I was referring to come to the message boards SOLELY for the purpose of trading cdrs.....and I've seen tons of lists of new releases on these guys' trade lists.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. I have no problem with mp3s or CDRs being used as a medium for sampling new material to determine if you are going to buy it (and more and more online vendors are now providing at least samples to get the feel for a CD), but within a few days, if you have determined that you are NOT going to buy that CD, mp3s should be deleted and CDRs should be thrown away. At least that is the way I do it.

 

I do have some CDRs in my collection, of material that I simply never have been able to locate originals of, or afford. All are out-of-print. I try to replace those with original pressings where possible, but some are just impossible to find.

 

An interesting discussion could be made of CDRs vs. used CDs, since the band/songwriter makes money from neither, yet buying/selling used CDs does not have the stigma of mp3s/CDRs. I remember at one point there was talk of legislation banning the sale of used CDs, but that was almost a decade ago.

 

What I did do was try to impress upon those accusers that the other scenarios do exist and if they were so vigilant in condemning Vegasmetal then they should take up their cause with others...otherwise it would seem they have an agenda specifically directed at Vegasmetal.

 

Something else to bear in mind: it may appear that there's a singleminded agenda against Vegasmetal, but I think that is simply appearance. (1) He happened to be the topic of discussion, so of course it would center on him; if other sellers engaging in similar behavior were brought to bear here, I think the conclusions drawn and opinions espoused would be the same, and (2) his manner of response exacerbated the situation, drawing far more ire than someone who conducted himself in a more professional manner. I think this discussion has shown us the far side of the spectrum rather than the norm...

 

-Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JLPRocks, what you seem to ignore is the fact that he IS doing something wrong.  The fact that 'others are doing it' doesn't make it right.  It's not okay to rob a bank because you saw on the news that someone else did it, and it's not right to rip off unsuspecting buyers on eBay because 'others are doing it'.  That's very twisted logic in defending vegasmetal, and quite misguided.

 

 

Jodi...

 

Obviously you missed the entire crux of my post. I would think that THAT is misguided....and not on my part.

 

I haven't ignored anything. I mentioned.....if not more than once, that he is selling 'reissues'. I did not ignore that. And I wasn't defending his actions....merely putting them into perspective....and making those people realise that if they're going to condemn one seller, then they must comdemn the others. And...the funny thing is that some of the accusers are no 'angels' themselves. Did you miss that point of my post?

 

So, let me ask you this....just like I asked the other accusers. Are you now going to go on a crusade to rid eBay of all sellers who do not present their auctions in a manner in which you feel is 'not ripping someone off'??? Are you? If not....then my question was...then why become so vehement in your disdain for this particular seller? Did you just feel compelled to jump on this wagon??? In my post, I mentioned many scenarios that take place....DAILY....on eBay...and from sellers that I'm sure YOU KNOW, Jodi....but I see no mention of their names in this stand on this issue. Why is that? I know you know of MANY cdr traders......are you going to condemn them as well. You HAVE to be fair in this....wouldn't you say?

 

However twisted you think my logic was....my point was simple.

 

First thing, please show me the 'vehemence' you refer to in regard to how I treated this particular seller. The strongest thing I've said is that it's not right to mislead buyers into paying huge amounts for what they are lead to believe are original CDs. Not once did I use any vulgarity or even strong language which was so prevalent in his posts. Hell, your language used in response to my post was much more 'vehement' than anything I said. Where does your vehemence come from?

 

Secondly, when it comes to cdr traders, the traders KNOW what they will be receiving, that being a cdr. They're not expecting an original CD in return for the CDR they trade, and a buyer shouldn't receive a reissue or bootleg in return for the hard-earned cash they pay when they're expecting an original! I believe I'm being more than fair in my statements.

 

Thirdly, I am not defending any other seller on eBay that performs equally 'shady deals' as those being discussed. They should all show more integrity than they are, but that's up to them. The one point I agree with you on is that the buyer needs to be more aware that this crap happens, and ask the appropriate questions, especially if they're planning on spending the big bucks on an item. The one difference with vegasmetal is he opened himself up to the criticism from others by registering for this messageboard and proceeded to swear, bad-mouth, bitch, complain, etc.... from his very first post. I believe this site is a community where, for the most part, people enjoy and respect each other, and when someone jumps in and starts the shit that vegasmetal did IMMEDIATELY upon his registering, it tends to get people's ire up.

 

Lastly, whether you believe so or not, you are defending him. Yes, you admit he's selling reissues, but where do you state that he is wrong in doing so? Again, the fact that others are doing it doesn't make it okay, and YES I think the others should stop also. A crusade? Nah, but I do have my beliefs that sellers such as vegasmetal should be more honest in their selling. No, he's not the only one by far, but he is what this thread is about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My statement of 'vehemence' was not born from that which you directed toward Sam....but to me.

 

My 'vehemence' stems from the fact that you stated that my insight into the situation was 'twisted'...and devoid of 'logic'. And I responded in a manner in which I felt was filled with enough ire to present the situation...as best as one can on a message board...in its 'angry' context without spouting vulgarities, etc. Why? Because you were not correct in that assumption.

 

The situation about the cdr traders was simply put. And in the context of this discussion was an insight into their 'legality' of trading...and NOT what the buyer on the other end was getting. I was comparing their trading to Sam's misrepresentation to put things in a sort of heiarchy of 'wrong doing'. The cdr traders are probably actually defrauding..in scope...more people...and for more money than Sam will EVER make. And that point was to show the level of 'wrong doing' that Sam was accused of...as to other acts that I feel are far more worrysome. And I wondered if all of these people who were attacking him so eagerly...were just doing so to 'jump in'...or if they truly believed in justice.....so to speak.

 

This statement speaks volumes. "They should all show more integrity than they are, but that's up to them." You stated this when talking about other sellers on eBay. Isn't it ironic that it's up to 'them' to police themselves...but yet...you felt the need to jump into the foray to attack Vegasmetal? Well...you weren't one of the 'attackers'...so to speak...but you definitely held one side of opinion in the matter. So, it's not really 'up to' him....is it?

 

"The one difference with vegasmetal is he opened himself up to the criticism from others by registering for this messageboard and proceeded to swear, bad-mouth, bitch, complain, etc.... "

 

Yes...I wholeheartedly agree. He did open himself up to criticism. Of his personality....of his lact of tact...and verbage. And I had no problems with people being angry about that. I know how he can be.....so it doesn't affect me as greatly...but I can understand how others felt.

 

You keep saying that something Vegasmetal did was 'wrong'...and I was putting this into perspective. How 'wrong' was it? Many felt that by not disclosing certain info in his auctions that that was 'wrong'. I pointed out....and they are sellers you very well have seen....that do not 1.) Put the year of release in their auctions because they don't want the buyer to know that it's not from the 80's etc. 2.) Post NO info at all 3.) Use exaggerations, implications and otherwise to get the buyer to think the piece they are looking at is maybe more than it is. All of those examples are seen on eBay EVERY day without one word on this message board. Should we all START threads calling these guys out before you respond? Is that what you need to see where I'm coming from? What I was trying to illustrate with that 'logic' was that people come here...many who are NOT regulars...to jump into the foray concerning the matter and I was merely pointing out that this isn't the only injustice on eBay...or in music....but I never see anyone 'jumping' to fix that problem.

 

"No, he's not the only one by far, but he is what this thread is about."

 

No..this thread was about having perspective...and accountability as seen through someone elses eyes. And if you want to go back to the original topic....it wasn't about 'reissues' at all. It was about 'Bootlegs'.

 

Interestingly enough..the whole crux of the argument started because someone 'alleged' that Vegasmetal was selling 'bootlegs'. Why not shoot the messenger too? They were obviously wrong...but I saw NO ONE call them out and say 'hey...doesn't look like you are correct'. I didn't see ONE person ask this person any questions. NONE.

 

And why should that have been done? Well, much in the same way we do things in this world....more often than not, the allegation stirs the pot...no matter how valid it is. And...even if there is no truth...it can stick. We see this all the time....in politics, etc. Is it right? No. I felt that even though Sam was wrong to not indicate in his auctions that the discs were 'reissues' that the magnitude with which this whole thing took off was absurd. And yes....'Sam' didn't help things with his attitude or his lack of tact. But....the bottom line was not those personality traits. This wasn't a contest....this was serious, possibly LEGAL, allegations and I didn't like the way it was handled. THUS, my 'defense' of Sam....as you so wish.

 

"Lastly, whether you believe so or not, you are defending him."

 

Actually...not entirely true...but if you don't see it then I'm not going to convince you otherwise. I'm not here to convert anyone to either side...I'm merely pointing out some observations that really I felt no one even considered...or cared to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interestingly enough..the whole crux of the argument started because someone 'alleged' that Vegasmetal was selling 'bootlegs'. Why not shoot the messenger too? They were obviously wrong...but I saw NO ONE call them out and say 'hey...doesn't look like you are correct'. I didn't see ONE person ask this person any questions. NONE.

 

In all fairness...

 

1. "They were obviously wrong." Were they? After all this is said and done, we *still* only have VEGASMETAL's word that these are reissues and not bootlegs, that the band has endorsed these, that he has permission, etc. Be honest: given what has transpired, would you take his claim as fact? I'm not saying he is being dishonest, but by the same token, we cannot assume the original poster was incorrect either... the only "proof" that has been exhibited on either side in any way, shape, or form, has been the images posted by Del (and yes, I suppose a conspiracy theorist could make a case that these may have been doctored in Photoshop, etc.).

 

2. "I didn't see ONE person ask this person any questions. NONE." I'm probably to blame for this, since I immediately stepped up and posted that what the original poster had stated jived with what I had been told by several parties. I still stand by this. If my credibility is at issue, fine. I have no problem with that. I can only state that I trust and believe the parties that informed me about this; I believe in their expertise.

 

-Dan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I agree Dan....with the first point I've tried to indicate that it is what Vegasmetal has said...and yes, without the band posting here..it would be at 'face value'...

 

On your second point....quit blaming yourself for God's sakes.. lol ..but seriously....it may be a difficult task to prove unless one of the band members or copyright holders backs that claim. Why? Because regardless of the source...unless it's from the 'horse's mouth'..so to speak...it would be heresay. I would dare say we've had quite a bit of that at this point...haven't we?

 

 

*and on a side note...I think I've made my points in this matter fairly clear...and I'm going to step aside now and let this episode handle itself*

 

 

 

 

 

:ninja:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My statement of 'vehemence' was not born from that which you directed toward Sam....but to me.

 

My 'vehemence' stems from the fact that you stated that my insight into the situation was 'twisted'...and devoid of 'logic'. And I responded in a manner in which I felt was filled with enough ire to present the situation...as best as one can on a message board...in its 'angry' context without spouting vulgarities, etc. Why? Because you were not correct in that assumption.

 

The situation about the cdr traders was simply put. And in the context of this discussion was an insight into their 'legality' of trading...and NOT what the buyer on the other end was getting. I was comparing their trading to Sam's misrepresentation to put things in a sort of heiarchy of 'wrong doing'. The cdr traders are probably actually defrauding..in scope...more people...and for more money than Sam will EVER make. And that point was to show the level of 'wrong doing' that Sam was accused of...as to other acts that I feel are far more worrysome. And I wondered if all of these people who were attacking him so eagerly...were just doing so to 'jump in'...or if they truly believed in justice.....so to speak.

 

This statement speaks volumes. "They should all show more integrity than they are, but that's up to them." You stated this when talking about other sellers on eBay. Isn't it ironic that it's up to 'them' to police themselves...but yet...you felt the need to jump into the foray to attack Vegasmetal? Well...you weren't one of the 'attackers'...so to speak...but you definitely held one side of opinion in the matter. So, it's not really 'up to' him....is it?

 

"The one difference with vegasmetal is he opened himself up to the criticism from others by registering for this messageboard and proceeded to swear, bad-mouth, bitch, complain, etc.... "

 

Yes...I wholeheartedly agree. He did open himself up to criticism. Of his personality....of his lact of tact...and verbage. And I had no problems with people being angry about that. I know how he can be.....so it doesn't affect me as greatly...but I can understand how others felt.

 

You keep saying that something Vegasmetal did was 'wrong'...and I was putting this into perspective. How 'wrong' was it? Many felt that by not disclosing certain info in his auctions that that was 'wrong'. I pointed out....and they are sellers you very well have seen....that do not 1.) Put the year of release in their auctions because they don't want the buyer to know that it's not from the 80's etc. 2.) Post NO info at all 3.) Use exaggerations, implications and otherwise to get the buyer to think the piece they are looking at is maybe more than it is. All of those examples are seen on eBay EVERY day without one word on this message board. Should we all START threads calling these guys out before you respond? Is that what you need to see where I'm coming from? What I was trying to illustrate with that 'logic' was that people come here...many who are NOT regulars...to jump into the foray concerning the matter and I was merely pointing out that this isn't the only injustice on eBay...or in music....but I never see anyone 'jumping' to fix that problem.

 

"No, he's not the only one by far, but he is what this thread is about."

 

No..this thread was about having perspective...and accountability as seen through someone elses eyes. And if you want to go back to the original topic....it wasn't about 'reissues' at all. It was about 'Bootlegs'.

 

Interestingly enough..the whole crux of the argument started because someone 'alleged' that Vegasmetal was selling 'bootlegs'. Why not shoot the messenger too? They were obviously wrong...but I saw NO ONE call them out and say 'hey...doesn't look like you are correct'. I didn't see ONE person ask this person any questions. NONE.

 

And why should that have been done? Well, much in the same way we do things in this world....more often than not, the allegation stirs the pot...no matter how valid it is. And...even if there is no truth...it can stick. We see this all the time....in politics, etc. Is it right? No. I felt that even though Sam was wrong to not indicate in his auctions that the discs were 'reissues' that the magnitude with which this whole thing took off was absurd. And yes....'Sam' didn't help things with his attitude or his lack of tact. But....the bottom line was not those personality traits. This wasn't a contest....this was serious, possibly LEGAL, allegations and I didn't like the way it was handled. THUS, my 'defense' of Sam....as you so wish.

 

"Lastly, whether you believe so or not, you are defending him."

 

Actually...not entirely true...but if you don't see it then I'm not going to convince you otherwise. I'm not here to convert anyone to either side...I'm merely pointing out some observations that really I felt no one even considered...or cared to.

 

You completely missed the point about integrity. The fact that others are now questioning his integrity (yes, me included) does not in anyway take away his ability to choose for himself. Ultimately, it's his choice whether to continue to deceive or come clean. Every seller has this opportunity everytime they post something for sale.

 

Anyway, I didn't intend to get into a pissing match with you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. The only thing that really pisses me off tho is that my name is spelled Jody and not Jodi! :P:angry::D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since this is turning into a rant anyway, I'd like to interject my $.02 worth with regards to issues brought up here.

 

1) I don't know Vegasmetal from Adam, and I have no idea if he's selling bootlegs or not. He does come across as a low-rent peice of shit, but maybe he's not such an asslick in person. At any rate, I do take extreme exception to anyone that would knowingly pass off a bootleg or a legal reissue as a more-valuable original. What would you think if you paid $45,000 for a supposedly-original & mint copy of Superman #1, only to find you got a completely worthless but legal reissue? That fraud would cost you $44,998! Sure, with CDs the value is less, but many rare CDs fetch prices in the hundreds, and to dupe someone by selling a reissue as an original is really shitty. As previously pointed out, the value of a collectible is dictated by a number of factors like the # originally made, the amount in circulation & the demand for the item. This is the same whether you're talking paintings, baseball cards or CDs. (NOTE: I collect CDs, but I'm not a "collector" in any commercial sense. To me personally a reissue is normally just as good, but I'd still like to know what I'm buying.)

 

2) I don't have any patience or sympathy for artists or labels that don't feel used CDs should be legal. Their opinion is shifty & dishonest, IMO. The artist doesn't make money off them? So fucking what? Honda doesn't make any money if you sell your used car, so how is that any different? Big Music seems to confuse owning the copyrights to something with physically owning the disc. So long as I don't retain a copy for myself, it's none of their fucking business what I do with my discs. If I want to sell my used car, clothes, stereo gear, firearms, DVDs or CDs, that's my call- once I buy it it's mine to do with as I choose. Why the hell should the artist sell a "product" once but get paid twice, thrice, or even more often? Nothing in the world works that way. No one is forcing anyone to sell their "product," and if you can't take an item being resold, don't sell it in the first place.

 

Just had to get that off my chest! :2up:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Posts

    • Good stuff....missed it first time around.....
    • The Jokers - Slapback from their upcoming release “Rock and Roll Bones” 
    • There are certainly some great songs on here. I've only done the first 2 discs so far though. 
    • Played as well today and it's ok and has a few good songs, but tbh, I'm starting to get a bit bored with them, as they don't offer up anything they haven't done before. Like the last album, everything on this album has been done to death previously and is as predictable as hell. Of all the new albums I have played recently (and there have been quite a few) this doesn't feature very highly unfortunately.
    • I think 'Smoking' is the weakest track by far on here and the only one I don't really rate that much. Of the others, 'Time to Let Go' is a cool rocker that hits the spot and the lead off single 'Why Are You Calling Me Now' is a great AOR track. Liking the rest is going to depend on whether you like the more New Country/Pop ballad style of song, as there are at least 4 or 5 like that,  with Jay DeMarcus's obvious influence on these ..'I Hope You Find It' 'Don't Go' 'Finally Got It Right' and 'Anything But Us' are spectacular ballads and amongst some of the best I have heard in recent times, whilst 'Angels' 'All Night To Get There', 'Lights Go Out In Paradise' and 'Waiting On Your Sunshine' are all top quality too. Definitely one of the best albums this year for me, but as I said, it won't all be for everyone's taste, especially the softer stuff on show.
    • At least they've reverted back to something similar to Tesla soundwise...its ok...not bad...but if I need Tesla I've always got Mechanical Resonance , TGRC or Psychotic Supper to get me through  
    • New single pretty blah to me.  It's ok I guess but no desire to add that to a playlist or re-listen. These guys feel like a band that's underachieved a bit to me with their new music in the past 20 years or so after starting off so well with their first 3-4 albums.  Yeah, there's been some good songs here and there but they just really haven't gotten near the quality of those early albums.
    • Lily Lowe - Scream      After listening to her debut album “Löwe“, it’s evident why LILY LOWE is being coined Norway’s new lady of rock. This young singer and songwriter – real name Lill Sofie Eriksson Wilsberg – has the voice, the looks and essentially, talent, to become a star. The mastermind behind “Löwe” is Norway’s rock institution Trond Holter (Wig Wam, Dream Police, Jorn Lande etc.) who not only co-wrote the songs, but also is the musical director & producer, and play all over the record. In fact, most of Wig Wam members play on the album, alongside other Scandinavian renowned musicians. But don’t lose the focus here: LILY LOWE is the star on the album: with her intense delivery of brazen vocals is sure to reign right alongside the most prominent rock artists to date. An she writes very good songs as well. LILY LOWE was a contestant for Norway’s Eurovision this year with the great glammy hard rock tune ‘Bad Baby’ (included into the album) but if you think her music is bland you better listen to “Löwe” carefully. Having a song titled ‘Handsome Whore’ in the track list give you an idea this album isn’t ‘Eurovision saccharine’ at all. This rocks, hard. Holter has provided a bright, crisp, rocking production for Lowe’s voice and he drops some killer riffs to boot, like on opener ‘Scream’ which while wrapped by a modern production it’s very classic rock. The kind of riff that worked in the Seventies, the Eighties, and today. ‘Bad Baby’ is the hit, catchy, infectious, with Lily showcasing why she grew up listening Guns N’ Roses and Motley crue. The glam metal ‘Daddy’s Type’ is probably the song that most reveals Holter’s involvement, because this could easily could be into any Wig Wam album. It’s almost like you get a little shocked when it’s not Åge Sten Nilsen who sings. On “Run” Lily & Holter try something different, more modern and adding some electronics to the mix, but don’t be fooled, this album rocks. “Löwe” is a catchy driving good debut album by this talented young woman, helped by a cast of top Scandinavian musicians. LILY LOWE is an artist we will certainly hear more about in years to come.   01 – Scream 02 – Crying Game 03 – Bad Baby 04 – 911 05 – Caught in a Dream 06 – Daddy’s Type 07 – Handsome Whore 08 – So Long 09 – Run Lill Sofie Eriksson Wilsberg – vocals, drums Trond Holter – guitars, keyboards, backing vocals Bernt Jansen – bass, backing vocals Magnus Galguften – drums Tom Jensen – keyboards
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.