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figgy
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I don't believe for a second that Friction or Rock Boulevard will sell 1,000 units....in any format.

 

The test will be Manila Thrills and Mariah , both of which are apparently being pressed as silver discs.

 

Mariah has members of Tyketto , Britny Fox , Waysted and Lynn Allen....not to mention that Retrospect is releasing 3 of their albums , one being produced by Steve Brown of Trixter and another one having a song co-written with Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora. 

 

If that doesn't sell in droves then I guess Sam IS doing the right thing.

 

I don't see anyone complaining about the Bittersweet 2 disc set being cdr's. Why is that?

 

Maybe because the Bittersweet cd is a 2cd set & that it's more reasonably priced at $14.99....

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I don't believe for a second that Friction or Rock Boulevard will sell 1,000 units....in any format.

 

C'mon, where's your optimism? ;)

 

Actually, as a fully pressed disc, *if* they were to be sold through multiple online vendors and not just through Sam on Ebay, I think 1,000 units would be quite possible. It all depends on the promotion and getting the word out.

 

AOR Heaven

NEH Records

Schmankerl Records

MusicBuyMail

Perris Records

Metal Mayhem

Impulse Records

Wishing Well

Amazon.Com

Amazon.De

 

There's lots of vendors out there.

 

But if Sam's only going to sell through Ebay and the Retrospect web site, then no, he won't ever come close to 1,000 units.

 

Sam has repeatedly said that he doesn't want to wholesale; why should other stores make the money?

 

The mistake in that line of thinking, in my opinion, is that yes he may end up selling 100 units at $20 each ($2,000 - $250 costs = $1,750 net) but by properly wholesaling, he could do much better: Let's say he spent $1,300 to factory press 1,000 discs. I'll assume that he's only able to move 700 of the 1,000 at $6.00 each (never mind that he can still retail units himself on Ebay) for a total of $4,200 - $1,300 costs = $2,900. He's still ahead!

 

I don't think that a goal of 700 is unreasonable. Also, if he is able to wholesale them for $7 or $8, his margin goes up considerably!.. *and* that's not including the 300 other units that he could try selling himself on Ebay or on the web site at full retail.

 

It's an age-old adage: better to sell cheaply and in quantity.

 

The test will be Manila Thrills and Mariah , both of which are apparently being pressed as silver discs.

 

Mariah has members of Tyketto , Britny Fox , Waysted and Lynn Allen....not to mention that Retrospect is releasing 3 of their albums , one being produced by Steve Brown of Trixter and another one having a song co-written with Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora. 

 

If that doesn't sell in droves then I guess Sam IS doing the right thing.

 

Not necessarily. It all hinges on whether he makes an effort at promoting and/or wholesaling the album. If he doesn't, and the album doesn't sell, then it didn't have anything to do with the decision to press the discs. Make sense?

 

I don't see anyone complaining about the Bittersweet 2 disc set being cdr's. Why is that?

 

I'll be honest: I didn't scream about it because Joe sent it to me as a promo. At the time, I figured that's what was being done for all the promos. I didn't know that the actual releases were CDRs as well.

 

-Dan

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Well ... one thing that is "funny" ... at the very least ... is that a few months ago we were talking about bootlegs or ... well, "not-so-legit-prints" and THOSE were silver pressed, now the same seller seems to have the rights to some of the most wanted indies in the market and he's pressing them on green discs ? Now THAT makes a lot of sense ... like i said .. "funny"

 

I have nothing against Sam ... and Brian is right, good that some music is made available, and at the end of the day its the buyers decision if they purchase it or not ...

 

Oh, and btw, i didnt like Bittersweet/Cowboy Prostitutes as green discs back then ... a lot of other buyers i know felt the same ...

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I understand what all you guys are saying and I'm trying to play devil's advocate here.

 

Dan , you are STILL talking about a $1300 investment on ONE release. For that amount of lay-out , Sam can press 100 units of 5 DIFFERENT bands.

 

I think at this point there will be some people who are fans of glam , 80s hard rock , AOR , melodic metal , whatever , that will miss out on a bunch of great albums because they are adamant about not purchasing a green disc.

 

As far as prices go , Sam sets them at market value. Do I have to remind you that Rock Boulevard , Vyper and Friction (among others) are still selling between $30 and $50 on eBay? Why sell them at $10-$15 on the website when people will just flip them on eBay and make a profit for themselves?

 

On a happy note , Sam just told me there will be a Xmas sale running soon on the website and he's obviously hoping it will bring more sales.

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Why sell them at $10-$15 on the website when people will just flip them on eBay and make a profit for themselves?

 

The point you're missing is that if Sam is selling them on the web site for $15 and on Ebay for $15, no one would be able to resell them for $30-50. The market price would drop to the going average. And more units would be sold because the price would be more affordable for everyone.

 

When Sam was accused of bootlegging, he used to come here and say "It's about the music. It's about getting it to the fans." Now that he's doing legit releases, the approach he's taking is counter to that.

 

It's inconsistent and makes no sense to me at all.

 

Whatever. Sam is well within his rights to price and promote his merchandise as he sees fit...

 

-Dan

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I don't believe for a second that Friction or Rock Boulevard will sell 1,000 units....in any format.

 

The test will be Manila Thrills and Mariah , both of which are apparently being pressed as silver discs.

 

Mariah has members of Tyketto , Britny Fox , Waysted and Lynn Allen....not to mention that Retrospect is releasing 3 of their albums , one being produced by Steve Brown of Trixter and another one having a song co-written with Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora. 

 

If that doesn't sell in droves then I guess Sam IS doing the right thing.

 

I don't see anyone complaining about the Bittersweet 2 disc set being cdr's. Why is that?

 

 

Just for your info, Ryan told me he has sold 1500 copies of the surrender reissue all by himself...........

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Dan , you said...

 

"The point you're missing is that if Sam is selling them on the web site for $15 and on Ebay for $15, no one would be able to resell them for $30-50. The market price would drop to the going average. And more units would be sold because the price would be more affordable for everyone."

 

Are you missing the fact that Sam starts all auctions on eBay for 99 cents? Therefore THE MARKET decides what a cd is worth and not a distributor / record company.

 

I think that's about as fair as it gets , don't you?

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Are you missing the fact that Sam starts all auctions on eBay for 99 cents?  Therefore THE MARKET decides what a cd is worth and not a distributor / record company.

 

I think that's about as fair as it gets , don't you?

 

Oh please. Stop it. Not that old strawman argument yet again. The only reason THE MARKET sets the price at $30-$50 is that only one copy is auctioned at the same time so multiple people are fighting over it.

 

So no, that is NOT about as fair as it gets.

 

This conversation has ceased having any value whatsoever. We're just rehashing the same old bullshit over and over and over...

 

You're not going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you.

 

Enough.

 

-Dan

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Are you missing the fact that Sam starts all auctions on eBay for 99 cents?  Therefore THE MARKET decides what a cd is worth and not a distributor / record company.

 

I think that's about as fair as it gets , don't you?

 

What about if the market knew those are cdrs when bidding up to $50+ ? For me this is the most relevant factor which would KILL the sale if present

 

P.S. I see the topic got exausted already, so please consider this my last entry too, sorry.

Edited by stormspell
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Are you missing the fact that Sam starts all auctions on eBay for 99 cents?  Therefore THE MARKET decides what a cd is worth and not a distributor / record company.

 

I think that's about as fair as it gets , don't you?

 

What about if the market knew those are cdrs when bidding up to $50+ ? For me this is the most relevant factor which would KILL the sale if present

 

P.S. I see the topic got exausted already, so please consider this my last entry too, sorry.

 

 

I don't see a bunch of negs piling up from unsuspecting buyers , so I guess that point is moot.

 

OUT..

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With at least 50 bands currently selling their discs as cdr's on various sites (including Dan at one point) , I'm trying to figure out how it matters that Sam is doing the same thing.  Are you going to find bands like Mistreated , Cobra Dane , Atomik Cocktail , Hyde or Buster Cherry anywhere else on cd?  I didn't think so.  Are you going to pay $1000 for Rock Boulevard or $500 for Friction?  I didn't think so either.

 

Aaron,

 

You're misinterpreting my post. I was asking where figgy was getting his information from, when in fact Sam has had the Rock Boulevard CD on his site for a LONG time. If figgy has just now found that out now, that's one thing. No problem at all.

 

If, on the other hand, there's now a reissue of the reissue, that would run counter to what even Sam has said. The high price ($49.99) for this reissue was supposedly because there would only be 100 released.

 

I'm simply wanting more information. That's all.

 

 

Dan I was checking out the Bittersweet home page when somehow I got redirected to the retrospect site.I had heard of retrospect records but didn't know much about them.As I was browsing the site I came across the advertisement for the Rock Boulevard cd.I didn't know this was old news,I must be living under a rock. :anon:

 

I have no qualms about forking out $20 for a professionally produced release.

 

True, but we're talking about 2.5 times that amount... $49.95. That's a fair amount of money for a CDR reissue no matter how you slice it. :)

 

-Dan

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