heavyharmonies

Uhh... guys... could we tone it down a bit please? I understand the frustration, but I really would prefer that every single thread where the word "Retrospect" is printed NOT turn into an outright flamewar... Thanks, -Dan

Ok, I guess it's time for me to lay a smackdown, as this shit is getting old. 1. Sam has the ability to send me press releases for posting in the Label section. He did one early on, then opted to discontinue doing so due to a competition issue (no need to divulge the particulars). 2. Sam has the ability to post here, so 80sMetalCollector, stop being his mouthpiece. I can think of 2 specific occurrences when you've said Retrospect was reissuing XXX in the "next few weeks" and have been wrong on both counts. Unless it is coming from Retrospect directly, I don't want you posting rumor. When someone reportedly "in the know" associated with a label that has a "lively past" comes here and announces an iminent release when the band knows NOTHING about it, this is the result. An expected one at that. 80sMetalCollector, YOU have to take some responsibility in this, as you contributed directly to the situation at hand by incorrectly reporting the reissue as a done deal. Like it or not, until Retrospect releases are factory pressed and are available through mainstream channels (not just on Ebay from Sam personally or only on his website), there is going to be suspicion and wariness. You can disagree with it, but that's the nature of the beast. Folks here have been bitten in the past and have long memories. When Retrospect releases start showing up at NEH, AOR Heaven, etc. I'll buy them in spades, and so will most people here (I would surmise), but as long as the releases/reissues are done the way they have been, things are not going to change much. There's just too much potential for shadiness. I wish Sam and Retrospect well, despite our differences of opinion in the past, and I've told him as much. -Dan

Just a reminder that only CD releases should be submitted. I'm having to kill off a bunch from the submission queue because they are albums that have never been released on CD... Thanks, -Dan

No, not that bad. The ones I have are 4-page booklets, 4 over 1. I've got a page I've been working on (halfheartedly) for my Maynard Ferguson collection, and it has 3 Wounded Bird releases on it at the moment. I have pictures of the booklet front, tray card, and disc for each of them: http://www.vintagetrumpets.com/maynard/maynard.html -Dan

Last post deleted. 80sMetalCollector, I'm tired of your idiocy. If it continues, you get 30 days off. T-BONE, please tone it down or I'll have to do the same to you. The two of you are fighting to see who can get in the last word. If you guys have to hash this out, please do it by PM. This was actually a fairly informative thread. Let's try and get it back to that point. At any rate, I like that Wounded Bird has chosen some of the lesser-known bands to reissue (Nantucket, Detective, etc.) in the same vein that Renaissance Records did back in the late 1990s. -Dan

Settle down kiddies... Jeez, thanks for taking this thread WAY off topic. But since we're already there... Koogles was right about the Friction - Baby Talk release. Sam sent me one gratis, and I was less than impressed with the quality, so I took the time to outline the technical problems I found, along with prospective solutions. After working 15+ years in the commercial printing industry, and doing electronic prepress work for a fair portion of that, I know when subpar image manipulation and desktop publishing is going on. I also know how to fix these things and what workflows work best to maintain a crisp look to 2nd-generation artwork. Sam pretty much told me I didn't know what I was talking about and that no one else has ever complained about the artwork quality. So I tried being constructive and offering suggestions, but it's not wanted. That's Sam's prerogative. He can run his label the way he wants. Just know not to expect the same level of care when it comes to Retrospect artwork that you might expect elsewhere...

Wounded Bird reissues are good stuff. Yes, they are "no frills" reissues, in the same vein that One Way Records reissues were (although the sound quality on the Wounded Bird material is much better), but Wounded Bird doesn't gouge for their releases either and the discs can be found through virtually any wholesale distribution channal as "mid-priced" discs. Good stuff; I own quite a few. -Dan

Actually, in addition to banning the numbskull, I edited his post and changed the email address. No sense in allowing the spam to remain (not that anyone would have actually emailed said numbskull). -Dan

http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs? Excellent tool for ferreting out all the neg and neutral feedback anyone has received. Runs slowly, but better and more concise than wading through hundreds of feedbacks... -Dan

Sorry, missed that one. Yeah, Motorhead is perfect for BM. In fact I think there are a few Motorhead discs sitting in BM's submission queue... -Dan

In a word: no. I know it's splitting hairs, especially since Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple are already here, but all the classic rock stuff makes me hurl. Next thing you know it will be full of Cream, Traffic, CCR, Eric Clapton, etc. I'd sooner remove Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple than open those doors... (no Doors either!). -Dan

No, I'm not going to ban anyone, because it *was* a cheap shot on David's part. I am now going to ask, however, that people posting on behalf of competing labels either directly (David) or indirectly (80sMetalCollector) please not engage in this petty stuff. I've not asked that in the past, because there wasn't the need. There is plenty of obscure material out there begging for reissue (or CD release in the first place) that I'm sure there's enough to go around. It's not a zero-sum game. Thanks, -Dan

You're arguing in circles. You say that it's bad to trade CDRs and bad to NOT buy CDRs. Press the discs and there's no problem, no issue, no grey area, no suspicion, no arguments, no dissention, no doubt. -Dan P.S. I was never supporting trading CDRs of in-print music. If you got that from any of my posts, you're wrong. In fact I don't know why you brought up trading CDRs, since I never said anything about that to begin with.

Retrospect Records is pleased to announce the following signings.. FIRE DEPT - alongside Spanky Lee , Fire Dept were based out of Kentucky and these melodic hard rockers released one gem in 1990 that finally gets the re-issue it deserves. THE MAX - from Montana , this Melodic Rock / AOR band never got the recognition they justly deserved and released two highly polished slabs of AOR that will surely appeal to fans of The Outfield , The Koo and The Cauze. "Shadows in the Shade" will see a facelift with new artwork , but not before we sell out of the remaining original units.

Well, that's not *exactly* true, although it effectively amounts to the same thing. You can get pressed discs in quantities as low as 300, although the cost per unit is so high that you're better off getting 1,000. For example, in the latest DiscMakers catalogue (keep in mind the DiscMakers is one of the more expensive replicators; you can do better pricewise): 4-page 4/1 booklet (4/1 means full color on one side of the sheet and black on the other), full-color disc printing, 4/1 tray card, jewel case, polywrapped: Quantity 300 = $1,095 = $3.65 each Quantity 500 = $1,290 = $2.58 each Quantity 1,000 = $1,390 = $1.39 each (best bang for the buck without spending megabux) Quantity 2,000 = $2,380 = $1.19 each So while you can get smaller quantities done, you might as well spend the extra $300 for the additional 700 units... Bullshit. That's your opinion. The problem surrounding this whole CDR mess is the uncertainty of it all. If the discs being distributed are CDRs, who's to say that they are legitimate as opposed to "Cousin Bob" running them off in his garage? With a pressed disc, there is at least a feeling of security (perhaps a false one) that it is a legit disc. "CDR" has a certain negative connotation to it in collecting circles, like it or not. Does that mean that all CDRs are bootlegged? No. Does that mean that all pressed discs are NOT bootlegged? No, of course not. However, the currently "accepted standard" whether you agree with it or not is a pressed disc. Now, will that change in the future? Too early to tell. I will say this: it's a HELL of a lot easier for someone to copy a CDR release than a pressed disc release, so that "limited release" of 100 copies could easily grow into 500 because people are simply making copies and passing them off as one of the orginal 100. Is that happening? I don't know, but there's a far higher chance of that happening with a CDR release than with a pressed disc release. -Dan

We are excited to announce the signing of two more excellent Hard Rock bands. AXTION "Look out for the Night" - Lost gem from 1985 KID CRASH - Pittsburgh's premier Melodic Hard Rock act in the early 90s. We have over one hundred releases scheduled for 2006 so it's going to be one hell of a year. Thanks for supporting the fastest growing re-issue label in the world.

And your aesthetic judgment about the bands has exactly *what* to do with CDBABY's commission? You're slamming the site, claiming it takes a HUGE cut, then when you get called on it, your response is "well the bands suck." Please.

$4 is less than I would have expected. Plus, they have name recognition. -Dan

In this case I agree. The word "original" just serves to confuse people and it doesn't really add anything to the description. Just looking at things from strictly a logical standpoint, isn't "original reissue" an oxymoron?

The problem we get into is that there are *two* different uses of the word "original" being compared with one another here, so I can see how someone could easily get confused. 1. "original" vs. "reissue" 2. "original" vs. "CD-R" Both usages are commonly used in the CD collecting arena... In all candor, when the term "original" is used in either context, I assume the disc is a pressed silver disc. Remember, it's only been in the last few years that some bands/labels have legitimately released material on CDRs; prior to that point #2 was a nonissue, so you could safely assume that when the word "original" was used, there was no doubt that it was a silver pressed disc. Not so any more. It makes things a bit more of a minefield, and if you ever have any doubt, it's best to contact the seller before bidding/buying. Caveat emptor. -Dan

I'm not even sure what the question was. Figgy, next time instead of copying and pasting the entire text from the auction page into the message, just (1) put a link to the Ebay auction and (2) selectively quote the portion of the auction description that you have a question about. I'll be honest, I started reading your post and couldn't muddle through it all... -Dan

RETROSPECT RECORDS FIRST ANNUAL HOLIDAY SALES EVENT Seasons Greetings from Retrospect Records. Our 1st Annual Holiday Sales Event means prices on ALL cd's have been reduced by 25% and MORE!! And check this out - $2 flat rate shipping no matter how many you buy. New titles like the mighty DEFCON , ONEY , TH LATONA , DIAMOND , ROXY LANE , STRANGER will all be added within 5 days. LIMITED TIME OFFER - DO NOT PASS THIS UP. Coming Soon MARIAH - (silverpressed) MANILA THRILLS - (silverpressed) NEWCITY ROCKERS EDDIE ST JAMES PROJECT JAG WIRE PLEEZER NASTY SHAKE CITY ELI Thanks for supporting the fastest-growing Re-issue label in the USA. There's NO Alternative. http://www.retrospectrecords.com

Oh please. Stop it. Not that old strawman argument yet again. The only reason THE MARKET sets the price at $30-$50 is that only one copy is auctioned at the same time so multiple people are fighting over it. So no, that is NOT about as fair as it gets. This conversation has ceased having any value whatsoever. We're just rehashing the same old bullshit over and over and over... You're not going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you. Enough. -Dan

The point you're missing is that if Sam is selling them on the web site for $15 and on Ebay for $15, no one would be able to resell them for $30-50. The market price would drop to the going average. And more units would be sold because the price would be more affordable for everyone. When Sam was accused of bootlegging, he used to come here and say "It's about the music. It's about getting it to the fans." Now that he's doing legit releases, the approach he's taking is counter to that. It's inconsistent and makes no sense to me at all. Whatever. Sam is well within his rights to price and promote his merchandise as he sees fit... -Dan

C'mon, where's your optimism? Actually, as a fully pressed disc, *if* they were to be sold through multiple online vendors and not just through Sam on Ebay, I think 1,000 units would be quite possible. It all depends on the promotion and getting the word out. AOR Heaven NEH Records Schmankerl Records MusicBuyMail Perris Records Metal Mayhem Impulse Records Wishing Well Amazon.Com Amazon.De There's lots of vendors out there. But if Sam's only going to sell through Ebay and the Retrospect web site, then no, he won't ever come close to 1,000 units. Sam has repeatedly said that he doesn't want to wholesale; why should other stores make the money? The mistake in that line of thinking, in my opinion, is that yes he may end up selling 100 units at $20 each ($2,000 - $250 costs = $1,750 net) but by properly wholesaling, he could do much better: Let's say he spent $1,300 to factory press 1,000 discs. I'll assume that he's only able to move 700 of the 1,000 at $6.00 each (never mind that he can still retail units himself on Ebay) for a total of $4,200 - $1,300 costs = $2,900. He's still ahead! I don't think that a goal of 700 is unreasonable. Also, if he is able to wholesale them for $7 or $8, his margin goes up considerably!.. *and* that's not including the 300 other units that he could try selling himself on Ebay or on the web site at full retail. It's an age-old adage: better to sell cheaply and in quantity. Not necessarily. It all hinges on whether he makes an effort at promoting and/or wholesaling the album. If he doesn't, and the album doesn't sell, then it didn't have anything to do with the decision to press the discs. Make sense? I'll be honest: I didn't scream about it because Joe sent it to me as a promo. At the time, I figured that's what was being done for all the promos. I didn't know that the actual releases were CDRs as well. -Dan