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SURRENDER CD OFFICIALLY SOLD


Guest Retrospect Records

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I stay away from ebay period for the real rare stuff. I will get my stuff first hand from only people I know and trust, and can see before I buy. Why dont others live by this? Well, they hope and pray they can score "the big one" for a cheap price. This is why people bootleg, they go after those who take those risks, or are not educated. Same reason I wouldnt spend the money to buy a car on ebay. Why the hell would you spend good money on a car you cant test drive, see yourself, or take to a mechanic? Shouldnt be any different for these "gem" cds that pop up on ebay. Its no mystery, there are dishonest people out there!

 

Here is an idea, why not quit worrying about what everyone else is doing? Like I read in a post somewhere else here, if Vegas is selling illegal copies of stuff, it will catch up to him. If he is not, then no worries.

 

Reading PJ and Vegas go at it like a couple of 3rd graders on a playground goes beyond the pathetic point. Got to be honest guys, hard to respect both of you when you guys are acting like this...

 

 

Brocken Spectre

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Dan, I think it's time to  :whip:

 

No, I'm going to let this play out. While there has been some tit-for-tat between PJ and Sam, I'm not seeing the venom that graced the initial exchanges on this board between Sam and everyone here. As a matter of fact, I'm surprised at how civil Sam is in responding. I honestly didn't think it was possible. ;)

 

Some observations:

 

1. Let's say that tomorrow we find out that the Surrender - S/T does in fact not legitimately exist. The only pressings that have ever been sold are bootlegs. Can anyone truly fault Sam for selling one for $$$$? Truth be known, apparently NO ONE knows what the status of this disc is, and copies exchange hands extremely rarely, but always for big bucks. Does that mean that anyone who has ever sold one was ripping people off? I don't think you can make that argument. Now, if he comes up with another one in the next few months, I think that raises questions...

 

2. I'll be honest, the "ok to sell used Russian CDs outside of Russia" approach doesn't ring entirely true, in my opinion. If there were only a few here and there, I'd buy it, but if a regular and consistent part of your auction inventory consists of Russian pressings, then I'm sorry, it goes beyond just selling used Russian CDs. Now, that being said, if all it takes, in the eyes of the law, to make a CD "used" and bypass any distribution limitations, is to simply remove shrinkwrap, then in my limited understanding, this is a loophole big enough to drive a truck through, but the problem is with the law. Is it ethical? Debatable... since you're technically just violating the "spirit" of the law, but not the law itself. I don't condone it, but I understand it. If this is in fact the case, I wish Sam would simply come out and say "Yes, I am importing Russian CDs, but technically they qualify as used CDs regardless of quantity, so I am not violating the law. If you have a problem, change the law." I don't like parsing things and the whole "depends what the meaning of the word 'is' is" approach.

 

3. I think doing a one-to-one comparison of PJ's and Sam's offerings, sales numbers, feedback ratings, etc. doesn't really do much good. I think that they do cater to different clientele, and frankly there's room for both.

 

4. I still maintain that whether someone wishes to engage in selling bootlegs, import pressings, whatever, is their own business (and here comes the important part) as long as the customer knows in advance what they are getting. It needs to be disclosed in the auction. If full and open disclosure means you risk being shut down by Ebay, then I guess it's time to find other material to sell. Better that than foisting off boots as legit pressings. I really think that is the crux of the matter when it comes to boots, CDRs, re-issues, etc. -- that information not being imparted in advance.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling...

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Guest KISSMYOBI

Broken Spectre,

 

You make valid points, however... with that stated, I will add that it's difficult for me to reciprocate with my respect to someone who's bold enough to take a shot at my crusade against piracy without stamping their name behind their words. Words seldom have merit, if rendered from a faceless source.

 

This isn't PJ vs. Sam... it's PJ vs. Piracy, and Sam just happens to lead one of the largest piracy/bootlegging operations this scene has seen in many years. Some have asked for a backup to these claims. In due time.

 

Furthermore, to follow up on a most ironic claim by Sam made earlier... in considering the prospect of doing reissues in the same format as Metal Mayhem (and this is a quote from Sam, as posted earlier on this board)... Metal Mayhem itself is currently under major heat (legal, and otherwise) for a number of releases they have done. A website (I don't have the link here, but if someone is interested I can dig it up and post it here) has now been setup, and is rapidly gaining momentum, let by a legal team and several bands allegely charging breach of contract (among other things). I found it most ironic, that Sam all but validated accusations of his illegal piracy operation, by comparing his operation, and showing interest in doing business in a fashion similiar to that of a label already under legal investigation for many of the things Sam is currently himself being accused of.

 

I see how Sam's literary conduct may reflect that of a 3rd grader, but... Broken Spectre... how many 3rd graders do you know who's diction boasts of terms like "validated" or "alleged" etc? ;) Just a friendly joke... relax. ;)

 

Cheers,

PJ

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This isn't PJ vs. Sam... it's PJ vs. Piracy, and Sam just happens to lead one of the largest piracy/bootlegging operations this scene has seen in many years.  Some have asked for a backup to these claims.  In due time. 

 

 

 

Now you see, right there's the problem PJ. If you have some proof to back up your claims, you need to quit singing it, and start bringing it. The old "he's a bootlegger because I say so" routine is getting old, even for those who normally back you without question.

 

:huhsign:

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