Joe Biden America Last

[Glen]

6 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

Candidly, I've thought for over 20 years that the U.S. doesn't need to have it's military forces in nearly as many places in the world as we do. Trying to keep other people's peace and paying the full costs of it. The U.N. keeps wanting to dictate how countries operate so let them bear the costs for a while instead of it being paid for by the U.S. taxpayers.

We've got no business having occupying forces in the mideast. The Jews and the Arabs have hated one another for millennia. We have no business being in the middle of that mess. Our meddling in Iraq, Iran, Libya, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia over the years has caused more harm than good IMO.

We have more important needs here at home. Let's spend some of the billions and trillions of dollars we burn overseas into strengthening our southern border and rebuilding our decaying power grid and other infrastructure.

While I'm not isolationist per se, I'd like to see more of our resources and money spent here. Once we have our shit figured out, THEN we can start spending more money overseas.

I realize that this is a simplistic way to view it, but IMO we meddle too much; the positioning of our troops driven by the oil lobbyists.

All that said, with respect to Afghanistan, it's not THAT we left, but HOW we left. There was no coordinated plan, just "ok, byeeeeeeeeeeeee" that left U.S. citizens, Afghanis, and U.S. troops vulnerable. Inexcusable.

I do believe that we needed to leave Afghanistan, but not like this.

no the fact they left at all is inexcusable. 

As many reports have correctly stated , not much had really happened over the past few years, everything ticking along nicely.

Now, mainly due to America first policy, US is out of Afghan and the people have basically been thrown under the bus.

its like 20 years of effort for nothing.

I just feel really sorry for all those people especially the women and children who have had all their hopes washed away in just over a year.

very sad 

[heavyharmonies]

Why is it inexcusable for the U.S. to leave Afghanistan "at all"? What somehow obligates us to leave our soldiers in foreign lands for all time? Since you're not a U.S. taxpayer, how do you have any skin in the game? Of course you're in favor of our troops being there; you don't have to foot the bill in any way, shape or form or worry about the consequences.

[Glen]

8 minutes ago, heavyharmonies said:

Why is it inexcusable for the U.S. to leave Afghanistan "at all"? What somehow obligates us to leave our soldiers in foreign lands for all time? Since you're not a U.S. taxpayer, how do you have any skin in the game? Of course you're in favor of our troops being there; you don't have to foot the bill in any way, shape or form or worry about the consequences.

apart from our 10,000 troops who were also there of course 😉 

Seriously Dan, think before you write.

UK was one of the main military forces there after the US.

And we are a much smaller nation then you are.

We started to scale down from around 5 years ago but after the deal was done and NATO followed, no way could we stay there unilaterally

[heavyharmonies]

But that's not what you said. You said it was inexcusable for the U.S. to leave Afghanistan, not anyone else. The UK has removed all of its troops as well, but that doesn't bother you. It's only preoblematic that the U.S has left.

If that wasn't your intent and you meant the allied forces in general, then your meaning was unclear.

"Now, mainly due to America first policy, US is out of Afghan and the people have basically been thrown under the bus."

[Glen]

11 minutes ago, heavyharmonies said:

But that's not what you said. You said it was inexcusable for the U.S. to leave Afghanistan, not anyone else. The UK has removed all of its troops as well, but that doesn't bother you. It's only preoblematic that the U.S has left.

If that wasn't your intent and you meant the allied forces in general, then your meaning was unclear.

"Now, mainly due to America first policy, US is out of Afghan and the people have basically been thrown under the bus."

yes because like it or not, what the US does affects everyone else. 

The sad fact is that without US support no way would NATO stay.

Far from ideal I know. 

Truth be told the UK would have stayed if the US had. 

But if you need it clarified : it bothers me that ALL forces have left Afghanistan but this was instigated by the decision that the US took. 

[Dead Planet]

36 minutes ago, Glen said:

yes because like it or not, what the US does affects everyone else. 

The sad fact is that without US support no way would NATO stay.

Far from ideal I know. 

Truth be told the UK would have stayed if the US had. 

But if you need it clarified : it bothers me that ALL forces have left Afghanistan but this was instigated by the decision that the US took. 

The truth is that after 20 years, the West gave them all the weaponry, training and help they should have ever needed to keep their country free.... but instead with 5-6 times the soldiers that the Taliban had,  they ran away... any country that is unwilling to fight to be free does not deserve to be free...they are in this position because of their own actions and the West should not be at fault....

If we in the West ever start thinking that we know what is best for a non-democratic country again in the future, all we have to do is remember Afghanistan....

[Metal T]

                                

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Glen]

33 minutes ago, Dead Planet said:

The truth is that after 20 years, the West gave them all the weaponry, training and help they should have ever needed to keep their country free.... but instead with 5-6 times the soldiers that the Taliban had,  they ran away... any country that is unwilling to fight to be free does not deserve to be free...they are in this position because of their own actions and the West should not be at fault....

If we in the West ever start thinking that we know what is best for a non-democratic country again in the future, all we have to do is remember Afghanistan....

I agree with you to a degree. Perhaps the nation building should never have happened in the first place. 

The issue is the way the Afghan were supported was based on air support and western strategies which were difficult to continue once they ended after the Doha agreement.

It stretched supply chains and left the Afghan forces weakened especially in remote districts.

The speed of the withdrawal is also to blame and that lies squarely with Biden.

But surely you don't help build a nation- give hope and freedom to millions and then just abandon it in a fudged peace deal.

Just seems wrong to me and a waste of 20 years of effort.

[Dead Planet]

19 minutes ago, Glen said:

I agree with you to a degree. Perhaps the nation building should never have happened in the first place. 

The issue is the way the Afghan were supported was based on air support and western strategies which were difficult to continue once they ended after the Doha agreement.

It stretched supply chains and left the Afghan forces weakened especially in remote districts.

The speed of the withdrawal is also to blame and that lies squarely with Biden.

But surely you don't help build a nation- give hope and freedom to millions and then just abandon it in a fudged peace deal.

Just seems wrong to me and a waste of 20 years of effort.

I agree the withdrawal was a mess but even if the withdrawal had been slow the end result would have been the same as the Taliban were willing to make the sacrifices to win and the rest of the country was not willing to sacrifice anything but their freedom...I wonder if instead of invading, we had dropped 2 trillion worth of ordinance on the Taliban if they would have been so willing to host terrorists again..

Unfortunately we may have to find the hard way unless we are stupid enough to invade again...

[auslander]

Here is basically a guy spewing everything the Lefties on this thread have said and rightfully getting eviscerated by someone speaking logic.

 

[Glen]

7 hours ago, Dead Planet said:

I agree the withdrawal was a mess but even if the withdrawal had been slow the end result would have been the same as the Taliban were willing to make the sacrifices to win and the rest of the country was not willing to sacrifice anything but their freedom...I wonder if instead of invading, we had dropped 2 trillion worth of ordinance on the Taliban if they would have been so willing to host terrorists again..

Unfortunately we may have to find the hard way unless we are stupid enough to invade again...

'may' 

I'm almost 100% the wests action in the deal cut and overall withdrawal will lead to another major terrorist attack on home soil in the next 12-18 months.

Most prob in the US or UK but you can't discount places like France etc now as they have tasted this as well now.

[Leykis101]

19 hours ago, Dead Planet said:

If you voted for them then they are your party and McConnell only leads the Reps in the senate and he still kisses Trump's ass before he makes a decision.....

Nah he don't like trump, they hate each other, you guys really act like Trump is Jesus H Christ, I don't live in McConnell's state to vote for him, but bet your ass if  did  I'd vote him the fuck out

[Stefan]

Sport goes woke. Woke is for losers.

"Left-ism is a mental illness"

You can't fight the truth...

 

 

[Dead Planet]

4 hours ago, Leykis101 said:

Nah he don't like trump, they hate each other, you guys really act like Trump is Jesus H Christ, I don't live in McConnell's state to vote for him, but bet your ass if  did  I'd vote him the fuck out

For most of Trump's supporters I believe they see him as closer to the father than the son...

[heavyharmonies]

Nice try. Trump remains (to me) what I've always said he was: An asshole personality that ideologically is the best of a whole shitload of worse alternatives.

[Glen]

3 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

Nice try. Trump remains (to me) what I've always said he was: An asshole personality that ideologically is the best of a whole shitload of worse alternatives.

as I've said all along I wouldnt wish Biden and the left on anyone, but you clowns keep believing what you want.

my issues with Trump were purely personal. Now rectified 😉

[Leykis101]

all those old timers are mouthpieces, none of them like trump, they started in Reagan and the first Bush's time, they are all out of touch, we need term limits on senators,

[AlphaMale]

6 hours ago, Glen said:

as I've said all along I wouldnt wish Biden and the left on anyone, but you clowns keep believing what you want.

my issues with Trump were purely personal. Now rectified 😉

I was a big fan of his show The Apprentice here in America, before he was president. He's always been n egomaniac asshole. But he was entertaining both on the show and in the white house.

[Dead Planet]

13 minutes ago, Leykis101 said:

all those old timers are mouthpieces, none of them like trump, they started in Reagan and the first Bush's time, they are all out of touch, we need term limits on senators,

Stop talking sense...it's messing with my head...

[auslander]

1 hour ago, Leykis101 said:

all those old timers are mouthpieces, none of them like trump, they started in Reagan and the first Bush's time, they are all out of touch, we need term limits on senators,

How good would it be to have Reagan back though. Loved that dude. He killed communism, bet he could destroy wokeness like it is nothing.

[CureTheSane]

8 hours ago, Glen said:

as I've said all along I wouldnt wish Biden and the left on anyone, but you clowns keep believing what you want.

my issues with Trump were purely personal. Now rectified 😉

Well that clears a lot up.
I did not realise you know him personally, probably should have said that and saved a lot of grief  

[Leykis101]

3 hours ago, Dead Planet said:

Stop talking sense...it's messing with my head...

Ive never liked the Republicans they are every bit of douche bags as the Democrats, the fact they hated trump as much as the democrats just made Trump even more appealing, I'm not a conservative, Trump wasnt a conservative, Im a liberal in the true sense of the word, not a progressive liberal, I liked Clinton, I agreed with almost everything he did, I was really young when he was president and ive changed alot, but even looking back, I wish we had someone like him, I am just sick of the progressives in this country, they are not advancing anything in terms of socially, they are just perverting things that dont need perversion, listen to whos saying that, they are fucking nuts, AOC just said that the hurricanes hitting our east coast are from global warming, I dont even have words to say, except for I hope aoc keeps her mouth open long enough for me to put my dick and balls in it.

[Leykis101]

2 hours ago, auslander said:

How good would it be to have Reagan back though. Loved that dude. He killed communism, bet he could destroy wokeness like it is nothing.

I was in 6th grade when he left office, I only know of what ive read, and yes he wasnt a hard line conservative, and he didnt take shit, he was a man, he had a pair of balls hanging between his legs, unliike our current whatever he is who sits down to pee,

[Dead Planet]

12 minutes ago, Leykis101 said:

Ive never liked the Republicans they are every bit of douche bags as the Democrats, the fact they hated trump as much as the democrats just made Trump even more appealing, I'm not a conservative, Trump wasnt a conservative, Im a liberal in the true sense of the word, not a progressive liberal, I liked Clinton, I agreed with almost everything he did, I was really young when he was president and ive changed alot, but even looking back, I wish we had someone like him, I am just sick of the progressives in this country, they are not advancing anything in terms of socially, they are just perverting things that dont need perversion, listen to whos saying that, they are fucking nuts, AOC just said that the hurricanes hitting our east coast are from global warming, I dont even have words to say, except for I hope aoc keeps her mouth open long enough for me to put my dick and balls in it.

I liked Reagan, I liked Clinton, I liked Obama , I didn't care for the older Bush but I liked his son although he never had an original thought in his life and Cheney was the real president......

Climate change is a real thing whether people want to believe it or not ... it can be debated as to whether mankind has made it worse but it is happening...

[Leykis101]

3 minutes ago, Dead Planet said:

I liked Reagan, I liked Clinton, I liked Obama , I didn't care for the older Bush but I liked his son although he never had an original thought in his life and Cheney was the real president......

Climate change is a real thing whether people want to believe it or not ... it can be debated as to whether mankind has made it worse but it is happening...

My step dad is a meteorologist, I understand climate change, there is no proof it has anything to do with humans, theres tons of proof the earth heats up, then it cools down, and has since it was formed, AOC knows about climate change about as much as she knows about anything else, ive always scratched my head wondering if she is a diversity hire, but she was voted in so iit says levels about the idiots in her state.