Covid or Vax-Yes or no

[nyoilers]

If you had an option of getting the Coronavirus or getting the vaccination for Covid-19 which one would you choose?

I choose the vaccination

[heavyharmonies]

Strawman argument. How about neither?

[nyoilers]

7 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

Strawman argument. How about neither?

My guess is that the vaccination is coming.If you choose not to get it there's a great chance that you'll get the rona.As soon as everybody who wants the vaccination gets it I'd like to get back to some sort of normalcy-not wearing a mask,social distancing,etc...I would hope that everyone wants that.

[Rob Babcock]

I got the first dose of the Phfizer vaccine, will get the second in a couple weeks.

[lettard]

I got my first Astrazenica 2 weeks ago...due my 2nd in June.

[heavyharmonies]

27 minutes ago, lettard said:

I got my first Astrazenica 2 weeks ago...due my 2nd in June.

Wow, that's far apart. Is that the norm for Astrazanica? Here for both Pfizer and Moderna it's approximately 4 weeks between shots. It appears to be roughly 50-50 around here between the two, with much much lower numbers getting Johnson & Johson, due both to late arrival and what's been in the news re: blood clotting.

[heavyharmonies]

On 11/22/2020 at 4:44 PM, nyoilers said:

As soon as everybody who wants the vaccination gets it I'd like to get back to some sort of normalcy-not wearing a mask,social distancing,etc...I would hope that everyone wants that.

Around here the powers that be are saying that even after 85-90% of the population is vaccinated we'll still be forced to wear masks and social distance. Gotta keep the populace in fear forever; it's a great control mechanism.

Looking at the state averages it ranges from 20-33% of the adult population has been fully vaccinated thus far.

I had my first Moderna shot in February and second in March. No side effects to either. My boss, on the other hand, got quite ill from her second shot.

I've only met two people personally who have refused the vaccine. One is a co-worker for political reasons, the other a medical dietician in her early 20s who caught COVID early on, who is concerned as I was, about long-term side effects since the vaccines were rushed through.

[KarpetRydOFunk]

2 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

I've only met two people personally who have refused the vaccine. One is a co-worker for political reasons, the other a medical dietician in her early 20s who caught COVID early on, who is concerned as I was, about long-term side effects since the vaccines were rushed through.

None of the vaccines have been adequately tested. Yet. We are the test. It's all live data. So I'm gonna wait a year, or so, and see what comes of this. See what super powers y'all develop, and then choose which one I want. 

[Dead Planet]

3 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

Wow, that's far apart. Is that the norm for Astrazanica? Here for both Pfizer and Moderna it's approximately 4 weeks between shots. It appears to be roughly 50-50 around here between the two, with much much lower numbers getting Johnson & Johson, due both to late arrival and what's been in the news re: blood clotting.

Yeah another concern is waiting 4 months or more for the second jab, the science says 8-10 weeks at the  most but the politicians are panicking in many places (including Canada) and trying to get the first jab into as many people as possible and making them wait too long for the second jab due to a shortage of vaccine....someone save us from idiot politicians who quote the science one minute and then toss it aside when it doesn't suit them....do it right or not at all....

Of course now I'm hearing from the pharmaceutical companies that we will need a third shot.....this makes sense since they have not made enough profit from this pandemic yet....someone save us from greedy assholes...

[lettard]

8 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

Wow, that's far apart. 

10 weeks between them here,it started as 2 weeks but they changed it to enable more people to have at least a first jab each

[lettard]

5 hours ago, Dead Planet said:

Of course now I'm hearing from the pharmaceutical companies that we will need a third shot

Isn't the new Jannsen jab a one off?

[lettard]

6 hours ago, KarpetRydOFunk said:

 See what super powers y'all develop, and then choose which one I want. 

I didn't get a choice..they just stuck an Astrazenica in me...as for superpowers I can now see in the dark,with the lights on of course

[nyoilers]

9 hours ago, KarpetRydOFunk said:

We are the test. It's all live data.

The first people to get vaccinated are the healthcare providers( doctors,nurses etc...). 

I  figure if they get vaccinated and die then we're all fucked anyways

[Glen]

17 hours ago, KarpetRydOFunk said:

None of the vaccines have been adequately tested. Yet. We are the test. It's all live data. So I'm gonna wait a year, or so, and see what comes of this. See what super powers y'all develop, and then choose which one I want. 

you won't be able to go anywhere or do anything if you do that. Vaccine passports for proof of entry or travel will be coming soon.

 

its inevitable. 

[heavyharmonies]

"Papers, comrade!"

[CureTheSane]

23 hours ago, KarpetRydOFunk said:

None of the vaccines have been adequately tested. Yet. We are the test. It's all live data. So I'm gonna wait a year, or so, and see what comes of this. See what super powers y'all develop, and then choose which one I want. 

I call BS on that.
These have been the most tested vaccines ever.
 

Regardless, I'm going to wait for Pfizer if I can.
Not because of the extremely rare blood clotting issues, but I see Pfizer as the better vaccine.
Unless I get to travel after any vaccine, then jab me with whatever you have and I'm off.

[heavyharmonies]

8 minutes ago, CureTheSane said:

I call BS on that.
These have been the most tested vaccines ever.

Short-term testing, yes. But we know nothing about long-term side effects or interactions. You can't truly simulate that; you have to see what actually happens.

[KarpetRydOFunk]

This is an open letter from a doctor in Lytton, BC, a small community about two hours from me, to our provincial Health Officer, Dr. Bonnie Henry. 

 

[quote]Dr. Charles D. Hoffe, BSc, MB, BCh, LMCC

Lytton Medical Clinic

Lytton BC V0K 1Z0

 

5 April, 2021

 

OPEN LETTER

 

Dr. Bonnie Henry,

British Columbia Provincial Health Officer

Ministry of Health

1515 Blanchard Street

Victoria, BC, V8W 3C9

 

Dear Dr. Henry,

 

The first dose of the Moderna vaccine has now been administered to some of my patients in the community of Lytton, BC. This began with the First Nations members of our community in mid-January, 2021. 900 doses have now been administered.

 

I have been quite alarmed at the high rate of serious side-effects from this novel treatment.

From this relatively small number of people vaccinated so far, we have had:

 

Numerous allergic reactions, with two cases of anaphylaxis.

One (presumed) vaccine induced sudden death, (in a 72 year old patient with COPD. This patient complained of being more short of breath continually after receiving the vaccine, and died very suddenly and unexpectedly on day 24, after the vaccine. He had no history of cardiovascular disease).

Three people with ongoing and disabling neurological deficits, with associated chronic pain, persisting for more than 10 weeks after their first vaccine. These neurological deficits include: continual and disabling dizziness, generalised or localized neuromuscular weakness, with or without sensory loss. The chronic pain in these patients is either generalised or regional, with or without headaches.

So in short, in our small community of Lytton, BC, we have one person dead, and three people who look as though they will be permanently disabled, following their first dose of the Moderna vaccine. The age of those affected ranges from 38 to 82 years of age.

 

So I have a couple of questions and comments:

 

1. Are these considered normal and acceptable long term side-effects for gene modification therapy? Judging by medical reports from around the world, our Lytton experience is not unusual.

2. Do you have any idea what disease processes may have been initiated, to be producing these ongoing neurological symptoms?

3. Do you have any suggestions as to how I should treat the vaccine induced neurological weakness, the dizziness, the sensory loss, and the chronic pain syndromes in these people, or should they be all simply referred to a neurologist? I anticipate that many more will follow, as the vaccine is rolled out. This was only phase one, and the first dose.

4. In stark contrast to the deleterious effects of this vaccine in our community, we have not had to give any medical care what-so-ever, to anyone with Covid-19. So in our limited experience, this vaccine is quite clearly more dangerous than Covid-19.

5. I realize that every medical therapy has a risk-benefit ratio, and that serious disease calls for serious medicine. But we now know that the recovery rate of Covid-19, is similar to the seasonal flu, in every age category. Furthermore, it is well known that the side effects following a second shot, are significantly worse than the first. So the worst is still to come.

6. It must be emphasised, that these people were not sick people, being treated for some devastating disease. These were previously healthy people, who were offered an experimental therapy, with unknown long-term side-effects, to protect them against an illness that has the same mortality rate as the flu. Sadly, their lives have now been ruined.

7. It is normally considered a fundamental principal of medical ethics, to discontinue a clinical trial if significant harm is demonstrated from the treatment under investigation.

8. So my last question is this: Is it medically ethical to continue this vaccine rollout, in view of the severity of these life altering side-effects, after just the first shot? In Lytton, BC, we have an incidence of 1 in 225 of severe life altering side-effects, from this experimental gene modification therapy.

I have also noticed that these vaccine induced side effects are going almost entirely unreported, by those responsible for the vaccine rollout. I am aware that this is often a problem, with vaccines in general, and that delayed side-effects after vaccines, are sometimes labelled as being “coincidences”, as causality is often hard to prove. However, in view of the fact that this is an experimental treatment, with no long-term safety data, I think that perhaps this issue should be addressed too.

 

Furthermore I have noticed, that the provincial vaccine injury reporting form, which was clearly designed for conventional vaccines, does not even have any place to report vaccine injuries of the nature and severity that we are seeing from this new mRNA therapy.

 

It is now clearly apparent with medical evidence from around the world, that the side-effect profiles of the various gene modification therapies against Covid-19, have been vastly understated by their manufacturers, who were eager to prove their safety.

 

Thank you for attention to this critically urgent public health matter.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Dr. Charles Hoffe[/quote]

 

I believe everyone should always have a choice, and there should be enough information readily available for us to make an informed decision. It worries me when I read about the suppression of information.  

[KarpetRydOFunk]

8 hours ago, Glen said:

you won't be able to go anywhere or do anything if you do that. Vaccine passports for proof of entry or travel will be coming soon.

 

its inevitable. 

And do we think that's a good thing?

[nyoilers]

10 minutes ago, KarpetRydOFunk said:

And do we think that's a good thing?

There's worst things in life....

[KarpetRydOFunk]

27 minutes ago, nyoilers said:

There's worst things in life....

So, no, it's not a good thing? Why just accept it because there are worse things in life? 

[heavyharmonies]

No. It's not a good thing. Only authoritarians would think it is. What's next, barring people from facilities due to other aspects of their medical history and vaccination status? Flu, measles, HIV, STDs... where does it end? 

Just no.

[Darkstone]

3 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

Short-term testing, yes. But we know nothing about long-term side effects or interactions. You can't truly simulate that; you have to see what actually happens.

Absolutely spot on mate. 

The first line in this link says it all. Usually 10 to 15 YEARS to develop a vaccine. 

When testing vaccines, it's all about studying the effects over a long period of time. 

Already, in just a short period we're seeing adverse reactions.

You could give a vaccine to a billion people and they may be fine for the first year or two or three, but it's long term monitoring and data that truly tests a vaccine.

To claim that these are the most tested vaccines ever is ludicrous. They simply haven't had the time.

But hey, that's just my opinion. If people are willing to take it and are willing to let their children take it then good for them and good luck. I'd rather take my chances with the 'rona.

Although, it's looking more and more like I might not have a choice and that's a Hell of a lot more concerning than any virus.

 

 

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation

Edited April 22, 2021 by Darkstone

[Glen]

1 hour ago, KarpetRydOFunk said:

And do we think that's a good thing?

its irrelevant what we think 

[KarpetRydOFunk]

4 minutes ago, Glen said:

its irrelevant what we think 

I can't accept that. If we truly live in a democracy, we should be able to fight it.