Corona

[CureTheSane]

So just announced.

Because of 6 new cases, 2 of which are as yet untraced, our whole srate of victoria, population, 6.5 million people,is going into lockdown #6. This time for at least a week...

 

[Geoff]

7 hours ago, CureTheSane said:

So just announced.

Because of 6 new cases, 2 of which are as yet untraced, our whole srate of victoria, population, 6.5 million people,is going into lockdown #6. This time for at least a week...

 

I re-quit the news, but did hear that today. Like I've said above, absolutely no hope whatsoever do I have for this country anymore. The sadness I feel for my children is immense. I just can't see anything but their entire childhood being ruined by these fucking idiots in charge in this country. If someone could show me a light at the end of a tunnel I'd love to see it, but I can't see it at all. 

[heavyharmonies]

I just don't get what their thought process is. There is no way to achieve a 0 case rate, yet in Australia that appears to be the threshold that the government(s) have set. No other country in the world has adopted a lockdown standard anywhere near that draconian. Scientifically it isn't achievable unless the virus dies out completely.

It can't be the science, as if that were the case there would be many other countries handling things in this way right now... but nobody is. It has to be a political societal control/power agenda in play here.

Heck, my COUNTY (population 210,000) has daily positive case totals right now of 30 or so. No lockdown, just an indoor mask mandate that was initiated about 2 weeks ago due to the increase in Delta variant cases. No businesses are being forced to close.

IMO we will look back at all of this and realize that the lockdowns killed far more people than the disease ever did.

[Doug]

6 minutes ago, Geoff said:

I re-quit the news, but did hear that today. Like I've said above, absolutely no hope whatsoever do I have for this country anymore. The sadness I feel for my children is immense. I just can't see anything but their entire childhood being ruined by these fucking idiots in charge in this country. If someone could show me a light at the end of a tunnel I'd love to see it, but I can't see it at all. 

I know some disagree, but the light at the end of the tunnel is everyone getting vaccinated. We'll never facemask, lockdown, distance ourselves out of this otherwise. Hang in there, we can do it. 

[auslander]

8 hours ago, CureTheSane said:

So just announced.

Because of 6 new cases, 2 of which are as yet untraced, our whole srate of victoria, population, 6.5 million people,is going into lockdown #6. This time for at least a week...

 

Yep. Announced at about 4pm and the lockdown started at 8pm. So, all kids were home from school without their books. So all parents had to madly drive to school after hours to get the books and then make arrangements for another fucking lockdown across the whole State. For those that don't remember, where I live there have been zero cases of coronavirus. Count em, ZERO. Yet now more small businesses will go to the wall and lives ruined. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by auslander

[nyoilers]

21 minutes ago, Doug said:

I know some disagree, but the light at the end of the tunnel is everyone getting vaccinated. We'll never facemask, lockdown, distance ourselves out of this otherwise. Hang in there, we can do it. 

Yes,the vaccines work

[tts42572]

1 minute ago, Doug said:

I know some disagree, but the light at the end of the tunnel is everyone getting vaccinated. We'll never facemask, lockdown, distance ourselves out of this otherwise. Hang in there, we can do it. 

Agree.

It's pretty cleat that all the lockdowns and masking stuff do is delay the inevitable.  Those things are just band aids that won't solve the problem.  I didn't mind them at the start of this whole thing as we needed to buy time to work out what we were dealing with and figure out a way to deal with it.  And scientists did figure it out.

The only things that can solve the problem at this point are either getting vaccinated or being willing to just get the disease.  The choice is there for most people and only one choice is the selfless choice that shows you care about society and others around you.

I guess that's why many are so frustrated now.  I'm vaccinated, done my part and now still have to deal with this garbage because so many unvaccinated people out there have given this virus the ability to keep thriving.  We had this thing on the ropes this summer and now it's bouncing back. 

I have a friend that's an ER Doctor and he says it's just amazing watching people coming in with COVID and almost every one he treats is unvaccinated.  And he's very frustrated also.  These people are coming into hospitals and taking his time away from other patients when they shouldn't even be there.  He said he's also seeing many people who are getting this Delta variant who previously had COVID.  A lot of those people didn't think they needed to get vaccinated since they had COVID already and thought they were good.  

I try to be respectful of people's choices though as long as their choices don't impact the quality of my life.  But how long does this need to go on before it becomes apparent what the "correct" choice is?

[Dead Planet]

12 minutes ago, tts42572 said:

Agree.

It's pretty cleat that all the lockdowns and masking stuff do is delay the inevitable.  Those things are just band aids that won't solve the problem.  I didn't mind them at the start of this whole thing as we needed to buy time to work out what we were dealing with and figure out a way to deal with it.  And scientists did figure it out.

The only things that can solve the problem at this point are either getting vaccinated or being willing to just get the disease.  The choice is there for most people and only one choice is the selfless choice that shows you care about society and others around you.

I guess that's why many are so frustrated now.  I'm vaccinated, done my part and now still have to deal with this garbage because so many unvaccinated people out there have given this virus the ability to keep thriving.  We had this thing on the ropes this summer and now it's bouncing back. 

I have a friend that's an ER Doctor and he says it's just amazing watching people coming in with COVID and almost every one he treats is unvaccinated.  And he's very frustrated also.  These people are coming into hospitals and taking his time away from other patients when they shouldn't even be there.  He said he's also seeing many people who are getting this Delta variant who previously had COVID.  A lot of those people didn't think they needed to get vaccinated since they had COVID already and thought they were good.  

I try to be respectful of people's choices though as long as their choices don't impact the quality of my life.  But how long does this need to go on before it becomes apparent what the "correct" choice is?

One issue that bugs me is all the stress and angst we are piling onto doctors and nurses and health systems overall because of this virus....a lot of them are quitting because they can't take it anymore and many hospitals are on the edge of collapse due to lack of health care workers....the longer this goes on the worse it will get and those who are unvaccinated and catch this virus expect to be taken care of by their health care systems but they may be in for a shock in some places....then there are all the people who have followed the rules and gotten vaccinated who have other health issues that are not being treated because of the huge amount of covid patients...I wonder how many of them are dying because they can't get the medical care they need...we really need to get past this pandemic and the only path I see is vaccination...

[tts42572]

32 minutes ago, Dead Planet said:

One issue that bugs me is all the stress and angst we are piling onto doctors and nurses and health systems overall because of this virus....a lot of them are quitting because they can't take it anymore and many hospitals are on the edge of collapse due to lack of health care workers....the longer this goes on the worse it will get and those who are unvaccinated and catch this virus expect to be taken care of by their health care systems but they may be in for a shock in some places....then there are all the people who have followed the rules and gotten vaccinated who have other health issues that are not being treated because of the huge amount of covid patients...I wonder how many of them are dying because they can't get the medical care they need...we really need to get past this pandemic and the only path I see is vaccination...

My Dr. buddy has said that if it were up to him, he'd much rather give preference to and treat "other" patients ahead of unvaccinated COVID patients but he's obviously not allowed to operate in such a fashion.  His comment exactly to me was "I have to treat a lot of people that make stupid choices and do stupid things" lol.   

[Y&TForever]

3 hours ago, Geoff said:

I re-quit the news, but did hear that today. Like I've said above, absolutely no hope whatsoever do I have for this country anymore. The sadness I feel for my children is immense. I just can't see anything but their entire childhood being ruined by these fucking idiots in charge in this country. If someone could show me a light at the end of a tunnel I'd love to see it, but I can't see it at all. 

Australia has nothing on the morons running the USA now…letting hundreds of thousands of illegals roll into the county, many of whom are carrying the Rona virus.  I really do feel bad for the children, all over the world!  F’ing hypocrites…..

[Geoff]

6 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

I just don't get what their thought process is. There is no way to achieve a 0 case rate, yet in Australia that appears to be the threshold that the government(s) have set. No other country in the world has adopted a lockdown standard anywhere near that draconian. Scientifically it isn't achievable unless the virus dies out completely.

It can't be the science, as if that were the case there would be many other countries handling things in this way right now... but nobody is. It has to be a political societal control/power agenda in play here.

Heck, my COUNTY (population 210,000) has daily positive case totals right now of 30 or so. No lockdown, just an indoor mask mandate that was initiated about 2 weeks ago due to the increase in Delta variant cases. No businesses are being forced to close.

IMO we will look back at all of this and realize that the lockdowns killed far more people than the disease ever did.

I have loved this country all my life but remember a little while back saying we were a really dumb country. I can't remember what it was about but I think maybe the pathetic justice system, where they give out pathetic sentences to criminals and then blow up in the media when christ forbid these same people re-offend and kill innocent people. Happened on a regular basis before covid. Now only covid happens, far as I understand it. 

But what is happening here now is showing nothing more repeatedly than what a stupid fucking country we are. Like you say, this virus strategy is just plain stupid. You can call it whatever you want, but they have the same data everyone else has, yet they persist with this 0 cases strategy. Nothing more to label it other than sheer stupidity. 

110% agree on your assessment that one day it will be realised how much more damage the lockdowns have done than good. Infinitely more lives lost as a result, not to mention everything else that has been lost. That will be the even bigger factor in time. 

I always heard about our national debt and didn't know what to make of it. But Australia was trillions of dollars in debt before covid and today we are locked down half the year not producing anymore funds, with covid tests allegedly costing $200 per test, of which we maybe get about 50,000 collectively, as a nation, daily. To whom and how the fuck does this ever, ever get paid back, and what becomes of our country and it's people because of it?

6 hours ago, Doug said:

I know some disagree, but the light at the end of the tunnel is everyone getting vaccinated. We'll never facemask, lockdown, distance ourselves out of this otherwise. Hang in there, we can do it. 

Mate, that's a nice sentiment, but what about the reality where not everyone will be vaccinated? Because that is the reality and there is no plan B, hence why I see no light at the end of the tunnel. This idiot country has no realistic plan to live with the virus, whilst others around the world are accepting that is the only way forward. 

6 hours ago, nyoilers said:

Yes,the vaccines work

It doesn't matter if they work and there's dozens of pages previous to this stating why this isn't the issue in Australia. The reality is that vaccines have not changed a thing so far in this country, and despite the hollow promises, I don't see them changing anything in any foreseeable future. The vaccinations and who has them or not is not the issue in Australia. It is the fucking idiots running the show with their completely unrealistic viewpoints.

Some people here seem to get it, but others don't seem to understand that what is happening in Australia is not like what is happening everywhere else. "Just get vaccinated" doesn't work here because nothing changes and I would feel as stupid as our government if I believed their promises about anything changing when (and of course, by that I mean if) we hit 70-80% vaccination. 

All that can provide any hope in this place is a complete 180 shift on how the government and media view covid and an inevitable future with it as part of everyday life. 

 

5 hours ago, tts42572 said:

 

 

[Crazysam]

Those restrictions in Australia sound insane.  As you said Geoff, it's hard to see an end to things if the government continues to have such unrealistic goals.

Here in the U.S. it's all about politics and finger pointing as usual.  On the 4th of July President Biden gave us the impression the worst of the pandemic had passed despite knowing full well the Delta variant was starting to spread.  One would have only needed to look to the difficult situation the UK was dealing with considering they have similar vaccination rates.  By claiming the recent surge is the fault of the unvaccinated oversimplifies things and ignores the actions of the general population and how contagious the Delta variant is.  Over the last few months we seemed to go from zero to 60.  With very few capacity limits for large events and in general very few mitigation guidelines were being followed anymore.  Many people are still under the false impression that the vaccines gives them immunity.  Health officials only recently confirmed what had begun to seem obvious, that vaccinated people could in fact get and spread the virus, albeit at a lower rate than those who are unvaccinated.   However, they didn't bother to share that news through a national press conference.  Instead a few media outlets claimed to obtain a "leaked" internal document last week containing that information.  As I mentioned previously, I am fully vaccinated.  And based on the available data the vaccines seem to greatly reduce the risk of you having severe symptoms.  But I don't understand people mocking and shaming those who are unvaccinated and get sick.  Or implying they should be given lower priority when it comes to health care services.  As if they chose to get the virus or intentionally tried to get others sick.  Maybe we should start shaming anyone who gets sick with the flu but wasn't vaccinated because clearly that means they didn't follow the rules.

[CureTheSane]

We have got to zero cases 5 times in my state.
It can be done, but at a significant cost to business and mental health.
Problem is, it just takes one returning traveler to get out and about with the virus for it all to start spreading again, and that will never change.
Otehr issue is this Delta strain that is much harder to contain.
NSW (where Geoff lives) is seeing that right now. and it looks like it might not be controllable, with cases on the increase.

Like I've said before, just wait for the new strains...

[Geoff]

4 hours ago, Crazysam said:

Those restrictions in Australia sound insane.  As you said Geoff, it's hard to see an end to things if the government continues to have such unrealistic goals.

Here in the U.S. it's all about politics and finger pointing as usual.  On the 4th of July President Biden gave us the impression the worst of the pandemic had passed despite knowing full well the Delta variant was starting to spread.  One would have only needed to look to the difficult situation the UK was dealing with considering they have similar vaccination rates.  By claiming the recent surge is the fault of the unvaccinated oversimplifies things and ignores the actions of the general population and how contagious the Delta variant is.  Over the last few months we seemed to go from zero to 60.  With very few capacity limits for large events and in general very few mitigation guidelines were being followed anymore.  Many people are still under the false impression that the vaccines gives them immunity.  Health officials only recently confirmed what had begun to seem obvious, that vaccinated people could in fact get and spread the virus, albeit at a lower rate than those who are unvaccinated.   However, they didn't bother to share that news through a national press conference.  Instead a few media outlets claimed to obtain a "leaked" internal document last week containing that information.  As I mentioned previously, I am fully vaccinated.  And based on the available data the vaccines seem to greatly reduce the risk of you having severe symptoms.  But I don't understand people mocking and shaming those who are unvaccinated and get sick.  Or implying they should be given lower priority when it comes to health care services.  As if they chose to get the virus or intentionally tried to get others sick.  Maybe we should start shaming anyone who gets sick with the flu but wasn't vaccinated because clearly that means they didn't follow the rules.

Yeah mate, I agree that it's ridiculous trying to blame everything on non-vaccinated people. There is nothing on earth that everyone is vaccinated against and it's silly to think that the covid vaccine will be any different. I get so irritated with the whole narrative. Even something as simple as someone saying "oh, I can't see my dying parent because of covid." Or, "we're going to be locked down even longer now because people protested against lockdowns." 

It's all garbage. The only reason we're locked down is because it is what our government is enforcing. Covid isn't stopping my kids from being educated, or learning how to swim, or playing soccer with their friends, or having birthday parties. The government has banned all that. And people "breaking the rules" don't extend lockdowns. The government does. I just hate that narrative, that it's everyone and everything's fault except the people enforcing it. That's where our hatred should be channelled, and nowhere else. 

What do they say in the movies - I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees. 

I would much rather covid brutally murder me as I lived a life worth living, rather than cower inside my house behind a facemask for the rest of my "life," scared shitless of covid. Let people decide for themselves how they spend the few years we get on this planet. 

Sorry, tangent again. I can't help myself. I just think of people who have passed in the last 18 months, unrelated to covid, and how miserable the last moments of their life have been. Again, the numbers are there for everyone to see. The final wash-up on all of this will one day be that the cure was far worse than the disease, but how much longer until this is realised? 

1 hour ago, CureTheSane said:

We have got to zero cases 5 times in my state.
It can be done, but at a significant cost to business and mental health.
Problem is, it just takes one returning traveler to get out and about with the virus for it all to start spreading again, and that will never change.
Otehr issue is this Delta strain that is much harder to contain.
NSW (where Geoff lives) is seeing that right now. and it looks like it might not be controllable, with cases on the increase.

Like I've said before, just wait for the new strains...

Of course getting to 0 can be done, if we spend the rest of our lives locked inside our homes. You talk about one returning traveller, but don't you have aspirations to travel yourself again one day? I know it may not happen again in our lifetime, but we're just speaking nonsense about 0 cases and return travellers and delta and whatever bullshit we're getting fed each day. 

It couldn't really be more simple - covid isn't going anywhere, nor was it ever going anywhere once it "got out" last year, and we all need to learn to accept that one day or other. 

[Crazysam]

1 hour ago, Geoff said:

Yeah mate, I agree that it's ridiculous trying to blame everything on non-vaccinated people. There is nothing on earth that everyone is vaccinated against and it's silly to think that the covid vaccine will be any different. I get so irritated with the whole narrative. Even something as simple as someone saying "oh, I can't see my dying parent because of covid." Or, "we're going to be locked down even longer now because people protested against lockdowns." 

It's all garbage. The only reason we're locked down is because it is what our government is enforcing. Covid isn't stopping my kids from being educated, or learning how to swim, or playing soccer with their friends, or having birthday parties. The government has banned all that. And people "breaking the rules" don't extend lockdowns. The government does. I just hate that narrative, that it's everyone and everything's fault except the people enforcing it. That's where our hatred should be channelled, and nowhere else. 

What do they say in the movies - I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees. 

I would much rather covid brutally murder me as I lived a life worth living, rather than cower inside my house behind a facemask for the rest of my "life," scared shitless of covid. Let people decide for themselves how they spend the few years we get on this planet. 

Sorry, tangent again. I can't help myself. I just think of people who have passed in the last 18 months, unrelated to covid, and how miserable the last moments of their life have been. Again, the numbers are there for everyone to see. The final wash-up on all of this will one day be that the cure was far worse than the disease, but how much longer until this is realised? 

Of course getting to 0 can be done, if we spend the rest of our lives locked inside our homes. You talk about one returning traveller, but don't you have aspirations to travel yourself again one day? I know it may not happen again in our lifetime, but we're just speaking nonsense about 0 cases and return travellers and delta and whatever bullshit we're getting fed each day. 

It couldn't really be more simple - covid isn't going anywhere, nor was it ever going anywhere once it "got out" last year, and we all need to learn to accept that one day or other. 

I agree, many of the extreme restrictions and messaging around this have been harmful and frustrating.  Whether it be lockdowns, effectiveness (or lack thereof) of wearing cloth masks, and what percentage we need to be at to reach herd immunity.  It's understandable as something evolves and knowledge is gained things will change.  But often there is conflicting information or the guidance may have little reasoning or data to support it.  We are told to just accept it because someone in charge says so.  And if we don't then we're part of the problem or we're spreading misinformation.   For example, last year we were constantly told if we got 70% of the population either vaccinated or with natural immunity from recovering then concerns would pretty much be over.  Well, from my understanding we should have been at that point prior to the recent surge.  So they needed to blame something (unvaccinated people) rather than just acknowledging they were wrong.  Now they've moved the goal posts further, again without much explanation, saying it may take 85-90%. 

[CureTheSane]

5 hours ago, Geoff said:

Of course getting to 0 can be done, if we spend the rest of our lives locked inside our homes. You talk about one returning traveller, but don't you have aspirations to travel yourself again one day? I know it may not happen again in our lifetime, but we're just speaking nonsense about 0 cases and return travellers and delta and whatever bullshit we're getting fed each day. 

It couldn't really be more simple - covid isn't going anywhere, nor was it ever going anywhere once it "got out" last year, and we all need to learn to accept that one day or other. 

I was replying to what Dan said, that zero is impossible.
Either way it's kind of a moot point, because whilst it is achievable, it is not practical.
And yes, our governments are targeting zero.
I mean I am the one who's been sooking about these inappropriate lockdowns sings our first one last year.
Don't think I'm some radical mask advocate, or vaccine advocate.
I wear a mask only when I have to.
the other day the check out chick at Woolworths had a go at me because my mask was below my nose.
Needless to say, she got a serve. Who the fuck is she, the mask police?

My talk of one returning traveler was to point out how easily we will be in and out of lockdowns for the rest of the year.
But just for the record - wear a mask or don't, I really don't care.
Get a vaccine or don't, I really don't care.
I'm happy for us to all  fully open up say 2 months after we've have vaccines available to everyone.
60%, 70% of the population vaccinated? I really don't care so long as everyone has had the opportunity to get their jabs.

[Dead Planet]

9 hours ago, CureTheSane said:

We have got to zero cases 5 times in my state.
It can be done, but at a significant cost to business and mental health.
Problem is, it just takes one returning traveler to get out and about with the virus for it all to start spreading again, and that will never change.
Otehr issue is this Delta strain that is much harder to contain.
NSW (where Geoff lives) is seeing that right now. and it looks like it might not be controllable, with cases on the increase.

Like I've said before, just wait for the new strains...

I'm hearing that lambda is the next variant.....

[Dead Planet]

5 hours ago, Crazysam said:

I agree, many of the extreme restrictions and messaging around this have been harmful and frustrating.  Whether it be lockdowns, effectiveness (or lack thereof) of wearing cloth masks, and what percentage we need to be at to reach herd immunity.  It's understandable as something evolves and knowledge is gained things will change.  But often there is conflicting information or the guidance may have little reasoning or data to support it.  We are told to just accept it because someone in charge says so.  And if we don't then we're part of the problem or we're spreading misinformation.   For example, last year we were constantly told if we got 70% of the population either vaccinated or with natural immunity from recovering then concerns would pretty much be over.  Well, from my understanding we should have been at that point prior to the recent surge.  So they needed to blame something (unvaccinated people) rather than just acknowledging they were wrong.  Now they've moved the goal posts further, again without much explanation, saying it may take 85-90%. 

One issue with this pandemic is that it is the first of the modern age and no one had a clue at the beginning how to properly deal with it because they weren't prepared....messaging was constantly changing as they figured out what was going on and to this day you have different people in the health care community saying different things as there is still no clear strategy except to get vaccinated....we are actually fortunate that they were able to make vaccines that are extremely effective at protecting us from this virus...

People have the right to get or not get vaccinated, I just wish that there was a lot less misinformation floating around social media platforms and from people who know better but selfishly say things to stir people up (Tucker Carlson)....

[AlphaMale]

I knew this was coming. New variant Lambda resistant to vaccines. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/delta-infections-among-vaccinated-likely-contagious-lambda-variant-shows-vaccine-2021-08-02/

[AlphaMale]

On 8/5/2021 at 12:06 PM, nyoilers said:

Yes,the vaccines work

[Geoff]

1 hour ago, AlphaMale said:

I knew this was coming. New variant Lambda resistant to vaccines. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/delta-infections-among-vaccinated-likely-contagious-lambda-variant-shows-vaccine-2021-08-02/

Australian government will be high fiving all through parliament with a new reason in their shit for brains to keep us locked down until the next variant comes along. Said it pages back, but we'll still be locked down in a decade due to the magma variant. Twenty years it'll be the Hardcock variant etc. etc. 

[auslander]

1 hour ago, Geoff said:

Australian government will be high fiving all through parliament with a new reason in their shit for brains to keep us locked down until the next variant comes along. Said it pages back, but we'll still be locked down in a decade due to the magma variant. Twenty years it'll be the Hardcock variant etc. etc. 

Everybody used to want to immigrate to our country. One more year of this enforced random imprisonment and we will see Aussies clamboring to leave permanently the US and Britain.

[Crazysam]

7 hours ago, Dead Planet said:

One issue with this pandemic is that it is the first of the modern age and no one had a clue at the beginning how to properly deal with it because they weren't prepared....messaging was constantly changing as they figured out what was going on and to this day you have different people in the health care community saying different things as there is still no clear strategy except to get vaccinated....we are actually fortunate that they were able to make vaccines that are extremely effective at protecting us from this virus...

People have the right to get or not get vaccinated, I just wish that there was a lot less misinformation floating around social media platforms and from people who know better but selfishly say things to stir people up (Tucker Carlson)....

I hear you, there are too many people out there making things worse by spreading disinformation or crazy conspiracy theories.  I am all for encouraging others to get vaccinated because the data shows it reduces your chances of having severe symptoms.  And as you said it seems to be our best way out of this mess.  I'm just not on board with shaming everyone who has concerns about taking it.  Nor things like requiring people to get vaccinated in order to keep their job or be able to enter a store.

[Dead Planet]

15 minutes ago, Crazysam said:

I hear you, there are too many people out there making things worse by spreading disinformation or crazy conspiracy theories.  I am all for encouraging others to get vaccinated because the data shows it reduces your chances of having severe symptoms.  And as you said it seems to be our best way out of this mess.  I'm just not on board with shaming everyone who has concerns about taking it.  Nor things like requiring people to get vaccinated in order to keep their job or be able to enter a store.

I don't believe in shaming people over vaccination as it is and should be a personal decision...I do understand companies asking their employees to get vaccinated so that they are not passing it around to fellow employees and customers but when entering a store it is ridiculous to require customers to show proof of vaccination, masking in covid hot spot areas is acceptable however....

[AlphaMale]

Worldwide lockdown coming right up.....