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1 minute ago, Dead Planet said:

Not recommended at this time....

“At this time, no submission has been received for the approval of any COVID-19 vaccine in children under 12 years of age,” the statement reads.

Both Pfizer and Moderna have begun clinical trials of their COVID-19 vaccines in children as young as six months old, with Pfizer expecting first results in July and full results in September. The company said it hoped to see younger children getting vaccinated in early 2022.

 

Why? Answer: $$$$

Kids aren't vaccinated for influenza, so why covid? Covid has no more effect on children than influenza. In fact, more kids die from influenza than covid every year. What are the (proven) risks of covid to kids? Zilch.

You present examples of diseases with much higher risks to kids than covid to back your claim children should be vaccinated. I find this a disturbing manipulation. Here's a choice: your kid can have polio, diphtheria, smallpox, tetanus or covid, which would you choose? I am directly quoting the examples you gave.

Covid is not in the same league.

How about you force vaccinate your kids as guinea pigs and leave other people's kids alone? This apparent move is just about more insane profits for big pharmaceutical companies if they plan to unnecessarily push it on kids now. 

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2 minutes ago, auslander said:

Why? Answer: $$$$

Kids aren't vaccinated for influenza, so why covid? Covid has no more effect on children than influenza. In fact, more kids die from influenza than covid every year. What are the (proven) risks of covid to kids? Zilch.

You present examples of diseases with much higher risks to kids than covid to back your claim children should be vaccinated. I find this a disturbing manipulation. Here's a choice: your kid can have polio, diphtheria, smallpox, tetanus or covid, which would you choose? I am directly quoting the examples you gave.

Covid is not in the same league.

How about you force vaccinate your kids as guinea pigs and leave other people's kids alone? This apparent move is just about more insane profits for big pharmaceutical companies if they plan to unnecessarily push it on kids now. 

You may not like it but I'm willing to bet that it will happen....the politicians will dictate that kids need it to go to school because we will still be dealing with it next year and for years to come as variants will continue to crop up....of course with kids the parents have control of whether their kids get it although home schooling isn't for everyone...and yes big business including big pharma controls the world we live in like it or not because that dirty green stuff is the grease that makes everything move....

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Dead Planet said:

most of those other vaccines were new and mostly unproven when they first came out

Not too sure about that one mate.

You're spot on about vaccines existing for decades though, but as far as I know, these very important and beneficial vaccines would have undergone up to 10 to 15 YEARS of extensive trials with willing participants. 

As for the companies manufacturing the vaccine advising that it be administered to six month olds (which should be a warning sign in itself), no worries, let's see what conditions arise in those children that the very same companies can treat with more medication that they manufacture.

 

 

Edited by Darkstone
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18 minutes ago, Darkstone said:

Not too sure about that one mate.

You're spot on about vaccines existing for decades though, but as far as I know, these very important and beneficial vaccines would have undergone up to 10 to 15 YEARS of extensive trials with willing participants. 

As for the companies manufacturing the vaccine advising it be administered to six month olds (which should be a warning sign in itself), no worries, let's see what conditions arise in those children that the very same companies can treat with more medication that they manufacture.

 

 

Not sure about 10-15 years....maybe at one time that was true but the time frame has been dropping for decades....it was I believe down to 3-5 years before Covid came along and now it is considerably shorter....some of the first vaccines did not get a lot of testing as they came along before all the rules were in place...

Anyway the bottom line for me is that I'm fine whether they vaccinate kids or not...the powers that be will certainly not be asking for my opinion on the subject and I suspect they will not be asking for the opinions of anyone who is not in the appropriate field of endeavor...so as usual most people will do as they are told, like it or not...

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Dead Planet said:

Not sure about 10-15 years....maybe at one time that was true but the time frame has been dropping for decades....it was I believe down to 3-5 years before Covid came along and now it is considerably shorter....some of the first vaccines did not get a lot of testing as they came along before all the rules were in place...

Anyway the bottom line for me is that I'm fine whether they vaccinate kids or not...the powers that be will certainly not be asking for my opinion on the subject and I suspect they will not be asking for the opinions of anyone who is not in the appropriate field of endeavor...so as usual most people will do as they are told, like it or not...

No worries mate, we'll have to agree to disagree and I have no problem with that.

You've always been one to put your point of view across respectfully. 

Edited by Darkstone
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16 hours ago, tts42572 said:

Not really seeing stats on breakdown between unvaccinated and vaccinated for the new cases.  I've seen many different reports though that a very large percentage of cases ending up in hospitals are unvaccinated people and something like 99% of all deaths these days are unvaccinated people.

What you say is basically my opinion.  I'm okay with masks in schools because kids haven't been vaccinated.  So we do need to protect them still.

But every where else should be business as usual without masks and restrictions..  The jab is available to everybody who wants it.  And I would be requiring proof of vaccination or negative tests to enter large gatherings of people at sporting events, concerts, etc.   And more and more Companies here are starting to require their employees be vaccinated and I applaud that too.  I don't want my business being impacted because a bunch of unvaccinated employees contract COVID and start spreading it around the workplace.

I find it hard to believe that the 90 million unvaccinated people here are all really that afraid of the shot.  I mean, really?  There's been like 4 million deaths worldwide from this disease and people are really worried about a vaccine that over a BILLON people have gotten without any issues?  How much longer before those people change their minds?  

I think a big part of it is that people aren't really scared of the effects of the shot.  Mostly, it's either a political stand or just not liking anybody telling them what they should do.  I have a neighbor and I know that's his deal.  He's still mad Trump lost so is basically anti-society with everything.

 

France and Italy have both introduced a green pass and some other pass for people who have been vaccinated.
it allows them to do much more, mass gatherings, restaurants, etc and instantly the vaccine rate jumped, increasing between 15 and 200% depending on which part of Italy you're in.

Travel will remain a big one, and Broadway venues have apparently announced "no vaccine, no entry, no exceptions"
These things are just the start.
Eventually people who never wanted a vaccine will just be complaining that they were forced to get one.

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I'll also say, re masks on kids. If they can carry and transmit covid, then no issues with masks, of with parents deciding to immunise them.
I made sure my kids had their shots growing up, they had no choice. I decided what was right for them as a parent.

Also, you're gonna need boosters for the vaccine you've already had, and then others to combat other variant, of which there will be many.
One thing I'd be worried about if I was unvaccinated is a fucking really deadly strain that comes about and existing vaccinated people have some resistance to it, but unvaccinated in big trouble,
Kinda like this delta strain, which is twice as easily transmitted.
What happens when we get a 'gamma' strain that is twice again transmissible and has a strike rate of 10 or 20%?
 

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9 minutes ago, CureTheSane said:

France and Italy have both introduced a green pass and some other pass for people who have been vaccinated.
it allows them to do much more, mass gatherings, restaurants, etc and instantly the vaccine rate jumped, increasing between 15 and 200% depending on which part of Italy you're in.

Travel will remain a big one, and Broadway venues have apparently announced "no vaccine, no entry, no exceptions"
These things are just the start.
Eventually people who never wanted a vaccine will just be complaining that they were forced to get one.

So without a vaccination you can permanently avoid Broadway shows so that you could never even be bullied into attending... maybe not so bad an option... ;)

Edited by auslander
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4 minutes ago, auslander said:

So without a vaccination you can permanently avoid Broadway shows so that you could never even be bullied into attending... maybe not so bad an option... ;)

Yep, a lot of women out there crying, and a lot of guys declaring that they are never getting a jab :)

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1 hour ago, CureTheSane said:

France and Italy have both introduced a green pass and some other pass for people who have been vaccinated.
it allows them to do much more, mass gatherings, restaurants, etc and instantly the vaccine rate jumped, increasing between 15 and 200% depending on which part of Italy you're in.

Deine Papiere sind in Ordnung? Show your papers! Against the wall!

Coming soon, arm bands for the non-vaccinated...

Just sayin'.

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3 hours ago, CureTheSane said:

What happens when we get a 'gamma' strain that is twice again transmissible and has a strike rate of 10 or 20%?
 

Now that is a concern we both share... just look at the meltdown we have experienced over a virus that is less than 1% fatal, if one comes along that is 10-20% fatal you can say goodbye to civilization.....

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2 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

Deine Papiere sind in Ordnung? Show your papers! Against the wall!

Coming soon, arm bands for the non-vaccinated...

Just sayin'.

Yeah, but as mentioned by many of us Australians here, we are fairly likely to bend over and submit.

We are far too complacent and accepting of what we are instructed to do.

The other side are the people in the US, who (IMO) are far too "my rights" "my freedoms" etc etc and are at times just obstinate to accept the greater good.

Would love to be somewhere in between, where we were able to do what is required, after insisting our leaders qualify their requirements, and demonstrate the reasons why.

It wasn't that long ago that you needed a little booklet when traveling to show that you had yellow fever, malaria, etc vaccinations at customs when you arrive in a country. This was phased out when the numbers of people travelling vastly increased.
 

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A lot of the comments on this thread are about freedom or at least freedom of choice but I believe that true freedom is an illusion these days....our freedoms have been eroding over the last several decades and the erosion ramped up after 9/11... they have done it with the reasoning that it is for our own good which is debatable....they follow our every digital move online, on cell phones, credit cards etc...the Snowden papers proved that our freedom has been reduced considerably....we are being manipulated everyday and in every way by governments, big business and even individuals (online mostly)....we can fight it and maybe even win the occasional small victory but we don't have a hope in hell of winning the war....this is our 24/7 monitored future where we can expect cctv on every corner, digital currency so they can completely control our money and life choices being reduced to what 'they' want us to choose....so what is the answer? I don't have one unfortunately, at my age it is just easier and more sensible to go with the flow and I expect the majority of the world will do the same until the process is irreversible...

Sorry felt the need to rant...:)

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Posted (edited)

The title of this video is spot on.

Don't be put off by the messenger, just listen to the message.

I was lucky enough to know my WW2 veteran Great Grandfather. He passed away when I was 15.

As someone who risked his life to save our freedoms, I wonder what he would think about all this?

 

 

Edited by Darkstone
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6 hours ago, Darkstone said:

The title of this video is spot on.

Don't be put off by the messenger, just listen to the message.

I was lucky enough to know my WW2 veteran Great Grandfather. He passed away when I was 15.

As someone who risked his life to save our freedoms, I wonder what he would think about all this?

 

 

Yeah, I watched this the other day and thought he put it very well. 

This country is absolutely fucked. I have no hope whatsoever. :(

20 hours ago, Dead Planet said:

just look at the meltdown we have experienced over a virus that is less than 1% fatal, if one comes along that is 10-20% fatal you can say goodbye to civilization.....

Word.

I remember in 2019 at some point well before the word coronavirus was ever part of our daily life, my mum and dad were down here visiting for the weekend. No idea at all what we were discussing, but I was saying how the thing I hated most about the world we currently live in is how everything gets blown so far out of proportion these days. Doesn't matter what it is, a volcano gets made out of a molehill at every turn. 

Then, just to ram my point far up my own rectum, covid arrives. 

But like you say, what happens now if we are ever faced with an actual pandemic? A mind-blowing precedent has been set and we can't reverse out of this one. Quite the contrary, everywhere seems to be holding onto it for all it's worth. 

I was alerted the other day as to the fact that somewhere between 40-60 million people die every year. Everyone jumps up and down about 4 million covid related deaths (and again, I want to emphasise this is deaths with covid, not deaths from covid - big difference), but what about the other 100 million odd deaths in the last 18 months? 

And people reference back to previous actual pandemics, but make no mention of the grotesque levels of world population today compared to previous times. 

Anyway, I'm trying to distance myself from everything again, after re-quitting the news this week. I don't have the mindset for it. I am completely embarrassed by the country I live in and find myself enraged every time I tune into the moronic fucking mind numbing shit this government and media spill every day. Absolutely, completely ashamed to be a part of this, and I genuinely have no hope for the foreseeable future at all. Really dark place I find myself in, and it has nothing at all to do with actual covid itself, but what it's left in it's wake. 

I was out and about on (a very crowded) coast in this fourth or fifth or sixth week of lockdown today, with another month and whatever they add on it to go... and every now and then the media shows vision of busy coastal suburbs, and I found myself thinking that the media and government have created this lockdown hysteria panic bubble that they are completely engrossed in, but seemingly more and more people have just had enough with it. Yes, people are dobbing in people for not wearing masks in their garden, with 50,000 calls to the police daily and the majority of this country are mindless fucking zombies, but, the numbers are all there for everyone to read at any time. All anyone ever has to do is sit down with a bit of common sense and digest what is before them. And slowly but surely, the people finally coming out of this covid stupor are growing, but sadly I think it's too late. We're so fucked already. Morrison talking about less need for lockdowns when we get to 70% vaccinated, and even less when we get to 80%. Less need? Really? So we'll only lock down entire states for 10 positive covid tests instead of 5? Yay! That's what we're all getting vaccinated for? If you're living in Australia and think there is any end whatsoever in sight, I envy your optimism. 

On 7/31/2021 at 2:05 PM, auslander said:

Why? Answer: $$$$

Kids aren't vaccinated for influenza, so why covid? Covid has no more effect on children than influenza. In fact, more kids die from influenza than covid every year. What are the (proven) risks of covid to kids? Zilch.

You present examples of diseases with much higher risks to kids than covid to back your claim children should be vaccinated. I find this a disturbing manipulation. Here's a choice: your kid can have polio, diphtheria, smallpox, tetanus or covid, which would you choose? I am directly quoting the examples you gave.

Covid is not in the same league.

How about you force vaccinate your kids as guinea pigs and leave other people's kids alone? This apparent move is just about more insane profits for big pharmaceutical companies if they plan to unnecessarily push it on kids now. 

Oh, and 100% agree with this. Face masks and vaccines for kids that have something like a 0.0000001% chance of actually being affected by this? Just fuck off.

Like you say, influenza is far more dangerous for kids and they don't need a flu shot every year. These hero politicians should fuck off and leave us all alone, but very definitely, at least leave the kids out of this garbage. Let kids be kids and keep the panic and alarm to simple minded adults. 

Edited by Geoff
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2 hours ago, Geoff said:

Yeah, I watched this the other day and thought he put it very well. 

This country is absolutely fucked. I have no hope whatsoever. :(

Word.

I remember in 2019 at some point well before the word coronavirus was ever part of our daily life, my mum and dad were down here visiting for the weekend. No idea at all what we were discussing, but I was saying how the thing I hated most about the world we currently live in is how everything gets blown so far out of proportion these days. Doesn't matter what it is, a volcano gets made out of a molehill at every turn. 

Then, just to ram my point far up my own rectum, covid arrives. 

But like you say, what happens now if we are ever faced with an actual pandemic? A mind-blowing precedent has been set and we can't reverse out of this one. Quite the contrary, everywhere seems to be holding onto it for all it's worth. 

I was alerted the other day as to the fact that somewhere between 40-60 million people die every year. Everyone jumps up and down about 4 million covid related deaths (and again, I want to emphasise this is deaths with covid, not deaths from covid - big difference), but what about the other 100 million odd deaths in the last 18 months? 

And people reference back to previous actual pandemics, but make no mention of the grotesque levels of world population today compared to previous times. 

Anyway, I'm trying to distance myself from everything again, after re-quitting the news this week. I don't have the mindset for it. I am completely embarrassed by the country I live in and find myself enraged every time I tune into the moronic fucking mind numbing shit this government and media spill every day. Absolutely, completely ashamed to be a part of this, and I genuinely have no hope for the foreseeable future at all. Really dark place I find myself in, and it has nothing at all to do with actual covid itself, but what it's left in it's wake. 

I was out and about on (a very crowded) coast in this fourth or fifth or sixth week of lockdown today, with another month and whatever they add on it to go... and every now and then the media shows vision of busy coastal suburbs, and I found myself thinking that the media and government have created this lockdown hysteria panic bubble that they are completely engrossed in, but seemingly more and more people have just had enough with it. Yes, people are dobbing in people for not wearing masks in their garden, with 50,000 calls to the police daily and the majority of this country are mindless fucking zombies, but, the numbers are all there for everyone to read at any time. All anyone ever has to do is sit down with a bit of common sense and digest what is before them. And slowly but surely, the people finally coming out of this covid stupor are growing, but sadly I think it's too late. We're so fucked already. Morrison talking about less need for lockdowns when we get to 70% vaccinated, and even less when we get to 80%. Less need? Really? So we'll only lock down entire states for 10 positive covid tests instead of 5? Yay! That's what we're all getting vaccinated for? If you're living in Australia and think there is any end whatsoever in sight, I envy your optimism. 

Oh, and 100% agree with this. Face masks and vaccines for kids that have something like a 0.0000001% chance of actually being affected by this? Just fuck off.

Like you say, influenza is far more dangerous for kids and they don't need a flu shot every year. These hero politicians should fuck off and leave us all alone, but very definitely, at least leave the kids out of this garbage. Let kids be kids and keep the panic and alarm to simple minded adults. 

Chin up mate. The media make things worse than they are. True, there are dog bastards out there dobbing in people. Always have been the mindset in some to support secret police. Otherwise the evil regimes wouldn't work. History judges collaborators harshly. 

But you talk to people in your workplace, neighbours etc. And you see there are sensible folks out there as well. Good people will ride this out and we will come out on top again eventually. This I do believe.

Edited by auslander
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1 minute ago, auslander said:

Chin up mate. The media make things worse than they are. True, there are dog bastards out there dobbing in people. Always have been the mindset in some to support secret police. Otherwise the evil regimes wouldn't work. History judges collaborators harshly. 

But you talk to people in your workplace, neighbours etc. And you see there are sensible folks out there as well. Good people will ride this out and we will come out on top again eventually. This I do believe.

Yeah mate, don't get me wrong. I see through the media for the attention seeking whores they are... it's just the reality of the situation that gets to me. We can only ever start to think about living a close to "normal" life again when we, as Australia, concede that we must live with covid. Whether that be at 70% vaccine rate or 80%, or as many of us would have it, now. It doesn't matter. What our premiers and prime minister are showing us is that not even the absolutely unrealistic 90% would be enough to stop the panic. The fact that Morrison is still talking about lockdowns when we're at a 70-80% vaccination rate tells me we're never getting out of this. Unless there is a complete shift in mindset in these fucking idiots running the show, we won't see the end of it because they still believe that there can be a life without covid and that we can magically get it out and keep it out of the country. 

Do you honestly see them "opening things up" and letting there be hundreds or even thousands of active cases of covid in the community, even if 70-80% of us are vaccinated? I cannot see it at all, unless, like I say, there is a complete 180 degree turn in how the morons think at the moment. It would have to be a complete turnaround on what they're currently drilling into us day after day. And I don't see it happening. 

And on the media, I concluded this week that the mainstream media is probably the biggest driving force in this whole thing. All these panic news bulletins with their alarmist wording making it out that we'll not survive the week, and those questions at press conferences to the premiers. We are in the strictest lockdowns we have seen since the start of this thing, and you have all idiots in the media telling the premier she should go harder with heavier lockdowns and stronger restrictions. I'm a massive supporter of capital punishment and would love to see it re-introduced for the most heinous of crimes, and I would gladly put these fear-inciting cunts into that scenario. The damage they are causing is immeasurable. 

Do you remember way back in the early days, maybe March last year, when we still respected our prime minister, when Scott Morrison addressed the nation saying that for most of us covid would be a mild illness and we'd all get through it. Fuck me how the tables turned from our leader assuring us that it's not all that bad, to what it is now... 18 months later, when we should all know so much better. 

The other thing that is fucking my mind and what I wish some cunt with a microphone would address is the fact that in this current Sydney outbreak I think we're up to about 4000 cases now? 200+ a day. I don't know the exact number for the whole 4-6 weeks or whatever it's been. The worldometer site is saying about 3500 active cases in Australia. And if I'm not mistaken, there's been 10 deaths from this current "outbreak" (mostly in their 80s and 90s). I have no idea what numbers the Victoria outbreak last year was, that claimed a few hundred lives, but are we not acknowledging yet that this "game changing" Delta variant may not be armageddon the media and government are reporting it to be? The country is in a mad panic about this stupid fucking Delta rubbish, but the deaths compared to the OG covid are not even remotely comparable. But it doesn't matter. All anyone seems to talk about is case numbers these days. No one ever acknowledges the death rates are only a tiny fraction of what they once were (so maybe we're vaccinated enough?). But no, it's all about keeping the panic alive. :(

  

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9 hours ago, Darkstone said:

The title of this video is spot on.

Don't be put off by the messenger, just listen to the message.

I was lucky enough to know my WW2 veteran Great Grandfather. He passed away when I was 15.

As someone who risked his life to save our freedoms, I wonder what he would think about all this?

 

 

A good portion of the large fines here in Canada have gone to reverends, pastors and priests who refuse to follow the distancing/lockdown rules because God forbid people are not allowed to attend church service since their spiritual health is more important than their physical health...not to mention the financial loss of not having the usual suckers in your church handing over their paychecks...

Sorry but the source of this info is way too biased for me to ignore...

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11 hours ago, Dead Planet said:

...not to mention the financial loss of not having the usual suckers in your church handing over their paychecks...

sums it up better.

I've visited churches all around the world when sightseeing.
Every church in Europe charges admission, or donation to enter.
Other countries, such as SE Asia and China, the ones who have a less commercial and purer faith, allow entry under their religious considerations (take off shoes and hats etc) with no fee (sometimes there is the odd donation jar, but it's certainly not a condition of entry)

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3 hours ago, CureTheSane said:

sums it up better.

I've visited churches all around the world when sightseeing.
Every church in Europe charges admission, or donation to enter.
Other countries, such as SE Asia and China, the ones who have a less commercial and purer faith, allow entry under their religious considerations (take off shoes and hats etc) with no fee (sometimes there is the odd donation jar, but it's certainly not a condition of entry)

I know what you're saying. I'm certainly no advocate for the Church, any Church. 

That's why I mentioned trying to overlook the messenger. I still think his points are valid.

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9 hours ago, CureTheSane said:

sums it up better.

I've visited churches all around the world when sightseeing.
Every church in Europe charges admission, or donation to enter.
Other countries, such as SE Asia and China, the ones who have a less commercial and purer faith, allow entry under their religious considerations (take off shoes and hats etc) with no fee (sometimes there is the odd donation jar, but it's certainly not a condition of entry)

It's like when I go to concerts or sporting stadiums or clubs, it's always free to go in.

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On 8/2/2021 at 4:31 PM, Darkstone said:

I know what you're saying. I'm certainly no advocate for the Church, any Church. 

That's why I mentioned trying to overlook the messenger. I still think his points are valid.

Yeah, as the most anti-religion member on this forum, if you're looking at that video and thinking about that you've well and truly missed the point. 

18 minutes ago, auslander said:

Anyone read the story today about the Offspring drummer getting fired for not getting covid vaccinated?

lol, I did not. I hope he's a recent disposable shoe-in and not a lifelong friend or something, because if so, shame on the rest of the band. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a gentle reminder to all us lucky folk in Australia. Delta variant - the GAME CHANGER! - is currently claiming lives at a rate of about 0.3% of those infected. I'm not talking about covid from the start. I'm talking about covid in 2021, where we are now, with vaccines, treatment and knowledge. 99.7% of Australia living in misery because this game changing Delta variant is mowing us all down, 0.3% at a time.

I only hope that in history we go down as the dumbest generation to ever occupy the planet, and that it doesn't get worse from here. Something tells it's only headed in one direction, though... 

 

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20 hours ago, auslander said:

Anyone read the story today about the Offspring drummer getting fired for not getting covid vaccinated?

 
 

That's fair enough. You've gotta keep 'em seperated.

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