New FnA releases just purchased.

[Mullethead]

there are a few things to consider...getting complete silver bottomed discs costs extra money than getting a silver pressed CD-R..all of FnA's products are silver pressed, just not always silver pressed like a CD you would find in walmart, no...silver pressed Cd-Rs sound no different than a cd you would find in walmart..the sound is the best available..the reason some of the FnA discs are only silver pressed CD-Rs is due to the fact that the music industry is in turmoil..people dont buy CDs like before and bootlegging is on the rise...so it doesnt make sense to always press up thousands of copies with the complete silver pressing knowing that 1) as soon as the album is available, it will become available for free online in a matter of days and 2) the crowd who will buy certain releases will be smaller and more selective for the genre..the money raised from the sales goes towards the artists regardless of what the bottom of a disc looks like, and much of the music has never been released and means a lot to the bands to even be available..that should be what matters at the end of the day..i realize some may disagree, and i can certainly understand the viewpoints listed above..i am simply trying to perhaps give another perspective that perhaps no one else is really thinking about.

 

Mullethead, i dont know if you ever got your matter settled or not, but i can try to figure something out towards that effect if its still needed, just let me know

 

Patrick

 

Patrick, I should mention you can get silver pressings in quantity of 500, so there is no need to press thousands.

[Jeff]

My main point is that it isn't hard to do your website so that it lists EXACTLY what type of pressing it is, and maybe a bit more info on what the inserts look like, how many pages, lyrics included, etc.

 

If I get to see that info listed and still want to buy a CDR with a crappy print 2 page insert, then I have nothing to complain about when I get it.

 

If I don't see anything listed there was a time when I used to just assume it was silver pressed with decent packaging. Well the whole Demon Doll thing and a few other experiences make me pause before I press the Order button.

[heavyharmonies]

Patrick, I should mention you can get silver pressings in quantity of 500, so there is no need to press thousands.

 

300 actually. Discmakers has any number of packaging options starting at 300:

 

300 in 4-panel digipaks for $798

300 in Color ecowallets for $699

300 in jewel cases with 4-page booklet (color outside/b&w inside) and color tray card for $798

 

And there are other places out there cheaper than Discmakers (I'm just familiar with them for data CD-ROM replication projects I have done for work).

[manicego]

If a band self releases, and releases on CDR, then you can sort of understand it. But as soon as a record label gets involved, there is never any excuse to release a CDR.

If you are a genuine record label, then release genuine CDs.

I am sure some of the record label people on here will come back with answers about costs or bands etc, but thats all just bullshit.

Look at the small bands out there who are releasing proper silver pressed CDs. If they can do it, there is no excuse for a label to not do it.

 

Simple fact is, if I wanted a CDR, I'd burn it myself for pennies, cause thats all they are worth.

 

100% correct. Of all the albums I've ever released I've never ever released anything on CD-R. Take pride in what you do. Create good artwork, make a decent sized booklet (or digi pack), use a strong sounding master. It's not that hard to do. Manufacture 1,000 pieces because that's where your first good price break is at (500 is a decent one as well but if you have to re-manufacture you've shot yourself in the ass). Again, it's not that hard to do ....

[Mullethead]

Patrick, I should mention you can get silver pressings in quantity of 500, so there is no need to press thousands.

 

300 actually. Discmakers has any number of packaging options starting at 300:

 

300 in 4-panel digipaks for $798

300 in Color ecowallets for $699

300 in jewel cases with 4-page booklet (color outside/b&w inside) and color tray card for $798

 

And there are other places out there cheaper than Discmakers (I'm just familiar with them for data CD-ROM replication projects I have done for work).

 

There ya go...learn something new every day!

[heavyharmonies]

100% correct. Of all the albums I've ever released I've never ever released anything on CD-R. Take pride in what you do. Create good artwork, make a decent sized booklet (or digi pack), use a strong sounding master. It's not that hard to do. Manufacture 1,000 pieces because that's where your first good price break is at (500 is a decent one as well but if you have to re-manufacture you've shot yourself in the ass). Again, it's not that hard to do ....

 

Yup. 1000 units and up is the "sweet spot" as far as per-unit cost. However, if a band/label is cash-strapped, they *can* do 300- or 500-unit runs for less than $5 per all in, meaning that if they are selling the CDs themselves online or at shows for $10-15 per, that's still feasible and make some money while producing a quality product.

 

There is *NO* excuse, in my opinion, for a LABEL to be producing CD-Rs. That said, if you are SO uncertain as to demand that you're not willing to commit $700-1,000 to the project, and insist on doing burned CD-Rs on demand, that's fine. It's your right... but you goddamned well better reveal up front what exactly you're selling.

 

That's all anyone here is asking for: honesty and transparency, even if it's just an asterisked footnote below the promotional content that says "* Discs are not silver-pressed." or "Discs are duplicated rather than replicated." That's all it takes. Collectors know the terminology/lingo and can make their buying decision accordingly, and the music-focused fan won't give a darn anyway.

 

Nothing pisses off a collector (of ANYTHING) more than to be on the receiving end of bait-and-switch. I've been involved with collectibles my entire life (stamps, coins, currency, laserdiscs, etc.), and collectors get PISSED when they get screwed. It's something that some bands and record labels just don't "get". In their mind "all you should be caring about is the MUSIC. Who cares what media it's on!" Umm.... no. That's not how the collector or completist sees it.

 

It's a problem that has an EASY solution: just be honest.

[the game]

Patrick...I agree with u on this and well said...the sound is no different..quality is great sound...but you are right about the downloading and sharing new releases..it is illegal...and the artist get rob of their money. Lets stop this download theft of music...and by the cd, cd-r or what ever but don't wait for copies. Also when copying music....the quality of sound is somewhat lost. Nice to hear all the opinions....Happy Holiday Easter to everyone..Cheers:)

[the game]

all of FnA's products are silver pressed, just not always silver pressed like a CD you would find in walmart

 

Sorry, but those two statements are mutually exclusive.

 

There is no such thing as a "silver pressed CD-R".

 

A CD is either "pressed" (replicated) or a "CD-R" (duplicated).

 

A silver-colored CD-R is still simply a CD-R. It just happens to have a lighter-colored underside than a standard CD-R (although it is still different in hue from a replicated CD).

 

-Dan

A true collector like myself that has many, many rarities whether it is Silver cd, Silver cd-r (which is the same) or replicated or duplicated....a collection merits on how rare it is...we are talking about music that was all recorded back in the day and the artists are finally wanting to release it to the public.....and if a silver pressed silver bottom cd is what they want then it is up to the person to buy it.....if the person does not buy it then it is his lost...but don't ask or download from a site the mp.3....?????. I see this a lot. There is a big cost difference in silver pressed official label cd's and smaller labels releasing Silver bottom cd's....I worked in a production studio in the past and you would be surprised how u can replicated it on a silver bottom cd. and my Nephew is in a band.....and u have to have the cash..which a lot of bands do not have. My Nephew presses his bands recordings on silver bottom discs and they are selling like hotcakes....the sound is incredible. and well produced....the fans see no difference.

[the game]

I want to thank everyone for their thoughts..opinions either good or bad......lets enjoy the music out there and it is up to each of us as individuals to ask the record label about the product and for them to properly label the product. Cheerz:)

[heavyharmonies]

I want to thank everyone for their thoughts..opinions either good or bad......lets enjoy the music out there and it is up to each of us as individuals to ask the record label about the product and for them to properly label the product. Cheerz:)

 

I would argue that it is incumbent upon the label/band to reveal up front what they are selling. The consumer should not have to ask.

[Evil Rick]

I want to thank everyone for their thoughts..opinions either good or bad......lets enjoy the music out there and it is up to each of us as individuals to ask the record label about the product and for them to properly label the product. Cheerz:)

 

I would argue that it is incumbent upon the label/band to reveal up front what they are selling. The consumer should not have to ask.

Absolutely!

[Captain Howdy]

there are a few things to consider...getting complete silver bottomed discs costs extra money than getting a silver pressed CD-R..all of FnA's products are silver pressed, just not always silver pressed like a CD you would find in walmart, no...silver pressed Cd-Rs sound no different than a cd you would find in walmart..the sound is the best available..the reason some of the FnA discs are only silver pressed CD-Rs is due to the fact that the music industry is in turmoil..people dont buy CDs like before and bootlegging is on the rise...so it doesnt make sense to always press up thousands of copies with the complete silver pressing knowing that 1) as soon as the album is available, it will become available for free online in a matter of days and 2) the crowd who will buy certain releases will be smaller and more selective for the genre..the money raised from the sales goes towards the artists regardless of what the bottom of a disc looks like, and much of the music has never been released and means a lot to the bands to even be available..that should be what matters at the end of the day..i realize some may disagree, and i can certainly understand the viewpoints listed above..i am simply trying to perhaps give another perspective that perhaps no one else is really thinking about.

 

Mullethead, i dont know if you ever got your matter settled or not, but i can try to figure something out towards that effect if its still needed, just let me know

 

Patrick

 

I want to thank Patrick for reaching out to me privately via email. It is a very nice gesture. Problem is, the damage is done and this guy has made it personal. I am currently reporting FNA Inc to The Better Business Bureau and am considering criminal charges based on the entire email correspondence, the fact that I have proof that I sent them back and the fact that he has basically stole from me.

 

It's not business anymore simply because he made it personal.

 

As for Dans comment, I agree 100%. That's not a poke at Patrick because he has an opinion. The fact of the matter is silver is silver and cdr's do not last forever. And furthermore, this whole thing could have been avoided had it been listed as a cdr because I never would have purchased it.

 

Sounds simple right...

And the other main point here is that regardless of how much extra a silver CD costs to make over a CDR, the price they are charging for this package means they are making huge profits. With whats in the package, the mark up must be phenomenal. They would probably only need to sell 10-20 copies to make their money back, and thats 80 copies that are 100% profit each.

[Mullethead]

100% correct. Of all the albums I've ever released I've never ever released anything on CD-R. Take pride in what you do. Create good artwork, make a decent sized booklet (or digi pack), use a strong sounding master. It's not that hard to do. Manufacture 1,000 pieces because that's where your first good price break is at (500 is a decent one as well but if you have to re-manufacture you've shot yourself in the ass). Again, it's not that hard to do ....

 

Yup. 1000 units and up is the "sweet spot" as far as per-unit cost. However, if a band/label is cash-strapped, they *can* do 300- or 500-unit runs for less than $5 per all in, meaning that if they are selling the CDs themselves online or at shows for $10-15 per, that's still feasible and make some money while producing a quality product.

 

There is *NO* excuse, in my opinion, for a LABEL to be producing CD-Rs. That said, if you are SO uncertain as to demand that you're not willing to commit $700-1,000 to the project, and insist on doing burned CD-Rs on demand, that's fine. It's your right... but you goddamned well better reveal up front what exactly you're selling.

 

That's all anyone here is asking for: honesty and transparency, even if it's just an asterisked footnote below the promotional content that says "* Discs are not silver-pressed." or "Discs are duplicated rather than replicated." That's all it takes. Collectors know the terminology/lingo and can make their buying decision accordingly, and the music-focused fan won't give a darn anyway.

 

Nothing pisses off a collector (of ANYTHING) more than to be on the receiving end of bait-and-switch. I've been involved with collectibles my entire life (stamps, coins, currency, laserdiscs, etc.), and collectors get PISSED when they get screwed. It's something that some bands and record labels just don't "get". In their mind "all you should be caring about is the MUSIC. Who cares what media it's on!" Umm.... no. That's not how the collector or completist sees it.

 

It's a problem that has an EASY solution: just be honest.

 

Again, I agree 100% and would add one thing. When you fuck up and mislead your customers, fix it. Make it right. Without them, the label goes down.

[Mullethead]

Patrick...I agree with u on this and well said...the sound is no different..quality is great sound...but you are right about the downloading and sharing new releases..it is illegal...and the artist get rob of their money. Lets stop this download theft of music...and by the cd, cd-r or what ever but don't wait for copies. Also when copying music....the quality of sound is somewhat lost. Nice to hear all the opinions....Happy Holiday Easter to everyone..Cheers:)

 

When I rip my CDs at 320 to back them up, there is no difference in sound.

[Mullethead]

all of FnA's products are silver pressed, just not always silver pressed like a CD you would find in walmart

 

Sorry, but those two statements are mutually exclusive.

 

There is no such thing as a "silver pressed CD-R".

 

A CD is either "pressed" (replicated) or a "CD-R" (duplicated).

 

A silver-colored CD-R is still simply a CD-R. It just happens to have a lighter-colored underside than a standard CD-R (although it is still different in hue from a replicated CD).

 

-Dan

A true collector like myself that has many, many rarities whether it is Silver cd, Silver cd-r (which is the same) or replicated or duplicated....a collection merits on how rare it is...we are talking about music that was all recorded back in the day and the artists are finally wanting to release it to the public.....and if a silver pressed silver bottom cd is what they want then it is up to the person to buy it.....if the person does not buy it then it is his lost...but don't ask or download from a site the mp.3....?????. I see this a lot. There is a big cost difference in silver pressed official label cd's and smaller labels releasing Silver bottom cd's....I worked in a production studio in the past and you would be surprised how u can replicated it on a silver bottom cd. and my Nephew is in a band.....and u have to have the cash..which a lot of bands do not have. My Nephew presses his bands recordings on silver bottom discs and they are selling like hotcakes....the sound is incredible. and well produced....the fans see no difference.

 

I can tell you truthfully that when a release is cdr only I will download it and not buy. That's MY choice. If I were a serious band and wanted everything to be perfect, do what everyone else does when they don't have money to buy something...SAVE!

 

I refuse to pay for a cdr when it is well documented that they do not last forever.

[Mullethead]

there are a few things to consider...getting complete silver bottomed discs costs extra money than getting a silver pressed CD-R..all of FnA's products are silver pressed, just not always silver pressed like a CD you would find in walmart, no...silver pressed Cd-Rs sound no different than a cd you would find in walmart..the sound is the best available..the reason some of the FnA discs are only silver pressed CD-Rs is due to the fact that the music industry is in turmoil..people dont buy CDs like before and bootlegging is on the rise...so it doesnt make sense to always press up thousands of copies with the complete silver pressing knowing that 1) as soon as the album is available, it will become available for free online in a matter of days and 2) the crowd who will buy certain releases will be smaller and more selective for the genre..the money raised from the sales goes towards the artists regardless of what the bottom of a disc looks like, and much of the music has never been released and means a lot to the bands to even be available..that should be what matters at the end of the day..i realize some may disagree, and i can certainly understand the viewpoints listed above..i am simply trying to perhaps give another perspective that perhaps no one else is really thinking about.

 

Mullethead, i dont know if you ever got your matter settled or not, but i can try to figure something out towards that effect if its still needed, just let me know

 

Patrick

 

I want to thank Patrick for reaching out to me privately via email. It is a very nice gesture. Problem is, the damage is done and this guy has made it personal. I am currently reporting FNA Inc to The Better Business Bureau and am considering criminal charges based on the entire email correspondence, the fact that I have proof that I sent them back and the fact that he has basically stole from me.

 

It's not business anymore simply because he made it personal.

 

As for Dans comment, I agree 100%. That's not a poke at Patrick because he has an opinion. The fact of the matter is silver is silver and cdr's do not last forever. And furthermore, this whole thing could have been avoided had it been listed as a cdr because I never would have purchased it.

 

Sounds simple right...

And the other main point here is that regardless of how much extra a silver CD costs to make over a CDR, the price they are charging for this package means they are making huge profits. With whats in the package, the mark up must be phenomenal. They would probably only need to sell 10-20 copies to make their money back, and thats 80 copies that are 100% profit each.

 

Another good point!

[SUICIDE]

Some CD Players still do not guarantee that all CD-Rs will play on them. I have a new Samsung laptop that will not play certain brands of Silver-Bottom CD-Rs in its CD player.

[Guest Rock Angel]

WOW!!! Way to be professional & respond to a customer. **SMH**

He's comes off as Narcissistic / Passive Aggressive . I'm sure it will be "someone" elses fault. Maybe he was laid up while adjusting his meds....

 

That guy needs a class in Business Managment & Customer Service!!!

[Mullethead]

WOW!!! Way to be professional & respond to a customer. **SMH**

He's comes off as Narcissistic / Passive Aggressive . I'm sure it will be "someone" elses fault. Maybe he was laid up while adjusting his meds....

 

That guy needs a class in Business Managment & Customer Service!!!

 

 

He is about to get some training....I am talking to the BBB. If Paypal does not refund my money I will also be filing a police report as I have every sing correspondence on email. He has stoeln from me and I have yet to hear anything since from him. He thinks the bad publicity will boost his business...his words.

[JamesEagle]

WOW!!! Way to be professional & respond to a customer. **SMH**

He's comes off as Narcissistic / Passive Aggressive . I'm sure it will be "someone" elses fault. Maybe he was laid up while adjusting his meds....

 

That guy needs a class in Business Managment & Customer Service!!!

 

 

He is about to get some training....I am talking to the BBB. If Paypal does not refund my money I will also be filing a police report as I have every sing correspondence on email. He has stoeln from me and I have yet to hear anything since from him. He thinks the bad publicity will boost his business...his words.

 

 

I think he'll have lost a lot of business just thanks to this thread. Folks round here seem to buy a lot of CDs...

[Guest Rock Angel]

The Bands probably have no clue on his final product till it's completed on his end . If he deals with customers like that imagine how he treats his Employees or Bands that have signed on with him.

[Mullethead]

WOW!!! Way to be professional & respond to a customer. **SMH**

He's comes off as Narcissistic / Passive Aggressive . I'm sure it will be "someone" elses fault. Maybe he was laid up while adjusting his meds....

 

That guy needs a class in Business Managment & Customer Service!!!

 

 

He is about to get some training....I am talking to the BBB. If Paypal does not refund my money I will also be filing a police report as I have every sing correspondence on email. He has stoeln from me and I have yet to hear anything since from him. He thinks the bad publicity will boost his business...his words.

 

 

I think he'll have lost a lot of business just thanks to this thread. Folks round here seem to buy a lot of CDs...

 

Even more scary, he says this has helped his business in the past...so....you do this often?

 

Idiot....

[Jeff]

Yeah, I might be avoiding this guy. I've only ever bought the Dirty Looks releases from FnA. Didn't have any problems.

 

Also it appears according to a FB post, a different record company that posts here often is having problems with FnA as well.

[Mullethead]

Yeah, I might be avoiding this guy. I've only ever bought the Dirty Looks releases from FnA. Didn't have any problems.

 

Also it appears according to a FB post, a different record company that posts here often is having problems with FnA as well.

 

Do tell my friend...

[Dead Planet]

I have bought from them in the past without problems but after this situation I can't imagine doing business with them again...