A Possible Anecdote.....

[JLPRocks]

"2) I don't have any patience or sympathy for artists or labels that don't feel used CDs should be legal. Their opinion is shifty & dishonest, IMO. The artist doesn't make money off them? So fucking what? Honda doesn't make any money if you sell your used car, so how is that any different? Big Music seems to confuse owning the copyrights to something with physically owning the disc. So long as I don't retain a copy for myself, it's none of their fucking business what I do with my discs. If I want to sell my used car, clothes, stereo gear, firearms, DVDs or CDs, that's my call- once I buy it it's mine to do with as I choose. Why the hell should the artist sell a "product" once but get paid twice, thrice, or even more often? Nothing in the world works that way. No one is forcing anyone to sell their "product," and if you can't take an item being resold, don't sell it in the first place."

 

 

THAT is an excellent analogy......! I agree 150 percent!

[JLPRocks]

My statement of 'vehemence' was not born from that which you directed toward Sam....but to me.

 

My 'vehemence' stems from the fact that you stated that my insight into the situation was 'twisted'...and devoid of 'logic'. And I responded in a manner in which I felt was filled with enough ire to present the situation...as best as one can on a message board...in its 'angry' context without spouting vulgarities, etc. Why? Because you were not correct in that assumption.

 

The situation about the cdr traders was simply put. And in the context of this discussion was an insight into their 'legality' of trading...and NOT what the buyer on the other end was getting. I was comparing their trading to Sam's misrepresentation to put things in a sort of heiarchy of 'wrong doing'. The cdr traders are probably actually defrauding..in scope...more people...and for more money than Sam will EVER make. And that point was to show the level of 'wrong doing' that Sam was accused of...as to other acts that I feel are far more worrysome. And I wondered if all of these people who were attacking him so eagerly...were just doing so to 'jump in'...or if they truly believed in justice.....so to speak.

 

This statement speaks volumes. "They should all show more integrity than they are, but that's up to them." You stated this when talking about other sellers on eBay. Isn't it ironic that it's up to 'them' to police themselves...but yet...you felt the need to jump into the foray to attack Vegasmetal? Well...you weren't one of the 'attackers'...so to speak...but you definitely held one side of opinion in the matter. So, it's not really 'up to' him....is it?

 

"The one difference with vegasmetal is he opened himself up to the criticism from others by registering for this messageboard and proceeded to swear, bad-mouth, bitch, complain, etc.... "

 

Yes...I wholeheartedly agree. He did open himself up to criticism. Of his personality....of his lact of tact...and verbage. And I had no problems with people being angry about that. I know how he can be.....so it doesn't affect me as greatly...but I can understand how others felt.

 

You keep saying that something Vegasmetal did was 'wrong'...and I was putting this into perspective. How 'wrong' was it? Many felt that by not disclosing certain info in his auctions that that was 'wrong'. I pointed out....and they are sellers you very well have seen....that do not 1.) Put the year of release in their auctions because they don't want the buyer to know that it's not from the 80's etc. 2.) Post NO info at all 3.) Use exaggerations, implications and otherwise to get the buyer to think the piece they are looking at is maybe more than it is. All of those examples are seen on eBay EVERY day without one word on this message board. Should we all START threads calling these guys out before you respond? Is that what you need to see where I'm coming from? What I was trying to illustrate with that 'logic' was that people come here...many who are NOT regulars...to jump into the foray concerning the matter and I was merely pointing out that this isn't the only injustice on eBay...or in music....but I never see anyone 'jumping' to fix that problem.

 

"No, he's not the only one by far, but he is what this thread is about."

 

No..this thread was about having perspective...and accountability as seen through someone elses eyes. And if you want to go back to the original topic....it wasn't about 'reissues' at all. It was about 'Bootlegs'.

 

Interestingly enough..the whole crux of the argument started because someone 'alleged' that Vegasmetal was selling 'bootlegs'. Why not shoot the messenger too? They were obviously wrong...but I saw NO ONE call them out and say 'hey...doesn't look like you are correct'. I didn't see ONE person ask this person any questions. NONE.

 

And why should that have been done? Well, much in the same way we do things in this world....more often than not, the allegation stirs the pot...no matter how valid it is. And...even if there is no truth...it can stick. We see this all the time....in politics, etc. Is it right? No. I felt that even though Sam was wrong to not indicate in his auctions that the discs were 'reissues' that the magnitude with which this whole thing took off was absurd. And yes....'Sam' didn't help things with his attitude or his lack of tact. But....the bottom line was not those personality traits. This wasn't a contest....this was serious, possibly LEGAL, allegations and I didn't like the way it was handled. THUS, my 'defense' of Sam....as you so wish.

 

"Lastly, whether you believe so or not, you are defending him."

 

Actually...not entirely true...but if you don't see it then I'm not going to convince you otherwise. I'm not here to convert anyone to either side...I'm merely pointing out some observations that really I felt no one even considered...or cared to.

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You completely missed the point about integrity. The fact that others are now questioning his integrity (yes, me included) does not in anyway take away his ability to choose for himself. Ultimately, it's his choice whether to continue to deceive or come clean. Every seller has this opportunity everytime they post something for sale.

 

Anyway, I didn't intend to get into a pissing match with you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. The only thing that really pisses me off tho is that my name is spelled Jody and not Jodi!

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Oh shit.......to be honest with you, I have to apologise about using your incorrect spelling for your name. THAT is such a pet peeve of mine..........seriously...

[Christine]

"2) I don't have any patience or sympathy for artists or labels that don't feel used CDs should be legal. Their opinion is shifty & dishonest, IMO. The artist doesn't make money off them? So fucking what? Honda doesn't make any money if you sell your used car, so how is that any different? Big Music seems to confuse owning the copyrights to something with physically owning the disc. So long as I don't retain a copy for myself, it's none of their fucking business what I do with my discs. If I want to sell my used car, clothes, stereo gear, firearms, DVDs or CDs, that's my call- once I buy it it's mine to do with as I choose. Why the hell should the artist sell a "product" once but get paid twice, thrice, or even more often? Nothing in the world works that way. No one is forcing anyone to sell their "product," and if you can't take an item being resold, don't sell it in the first place."

 

 

THAT is an excellent analogy......! I agree 150 percent!

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Not to mention the fact that, as long as the disc isn't a promo copy, "Big Music" has ALREADY their money!

[JustJason]

Since this is turning into a rant anyway, I'd like to interject my $.02 worth with regards to issues brought up here.

 

1)  I don't know Vegasmetal from Adam, and I have no idea if he's selling bootlegs or not.  He does come across as a low-rent peice of shit, but maybe he's not such an asslick in person.  At any rate, I do take extreme exception to anyone that would knowingly pass off a bootleg or a legal reissue as a more-valuable original.  What would you think if you paid $45,000 for a supposedly-original & mint copy of Superman #1, only to find you got a completely worthless but legal reissue?  That fraud would cost you $44,998!  Sure, with CDs the value is less, but many rare CDs fetch prices in the hundreds, and to dupe someone by selling a reissue as an original is really shitty.  As previously pointed out, the value of a collectible is dictated by a number of factors like the # originally made, the amount in circulation & the demand for the item.  This is the same whether you're talking paintings, baseball cards or CDs.    (NOTE:  I collect CDs, but I'm not a "collector" in any commercial sense.  To me personally a reissue is normally just as good, but I'd still like to know what I'm buying.)

 

2)  I don't have any patience or sympathy for artists or labels that don't feel used CDs should be legal.  Their opinion is shifty & dishonest, IMO.  The artist doesn't make money off them?  So fucking what?  Honda doesn't make any money if you sell your used car, so how is that any different?  Big Music seems to confuse owning the copyrights to something with physically owning the disc.  So long as I don't retain a copy for myself, it's none of their fucking business what I do with my discs.  If I want to sell my used car, clothes, stereo gear, firearms, DVDs or CDs, that's my call- once I buy it it's mine to do with as I choose.  Why the hell should the artist sell a "product" once but get paid twice, thrice, or even more often?  Nothing in the world works that way.  No one is forcing anyone to sell their "product," and if you can't take an item being resold, don't sell it in the first place.

 

Just had to get that off my chest!

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How much are you asking for the firearms?