Bret Michaels

[Geoff]

I don't mind the first three Poison albums but Bret's solo stuff does nothing for me.

 

I was really the opposite, I always hated Poison's image-over-substance (I realise a lot of Hair Metal bands fall under this category, but Poison seriously can't play their instruments or write anything resembling a 'tune') but actually thought Michaels had a reasonable voice & his solo stuff was okay. This song is kinda okay 'ish.

I totally agree about not being able to play their instruments,saw them live back in the 80's and what a big let down.Shocking live performance,don't know how we stayed until the end as plenty didn't.Bret was the saving grace as he sang well under trying conditions.

 

That is my main issue with them aswell - a complete mess of a band in general and truly awful musicians to back it up, although Brett was the (sort of) saving grace when i saw them live, as he was not too bad (which is not necessarily a complement either, when comparing him to other front men). I will say though, that Poison weren't the only band in the genre that were awful, as out of all the bands I have seen live (and there are very many in many different genres) the Hair Metal boys/girls win hands down (coupled with a few N.W.O.B.H.M acts) for churning out the number of absolutely shocking live bands (and a couple of really good ones aswell) with as TIM quite rightly states, 'Image Over absolutely no substance (or anything else)' at all - Never a truer word.

I chime in everytime this gets raised and I just can't not put my two cents in again. I am grateful and I acknowledge that at least this time you mention that there were a lot worse or as "bad" bands in the genre, but still have to say this anyway:

 

Unlike you guys I've not been lucky enough to see them live so I only have the live album, '7 Days Live' video and their studio albums to go from. Even the harshest critic has admitted that Bret Michaels was a decent (and in my opinion far above average in the scheme of the whole scene) frontman, so he's obviously not the "bad musician" problem. Well, not only is Rikki Rocket decent on the '7 Days Live' video, but I thought he sounded awesome - am I meant to believe he learnt how to play the drums for the video alone and that was it? Definitely not a sub-standard drummer to these eyes and Bobby Dall - well, he's a bass player. He sounds like every other bass player (bar the Billy Sheehan's of the world) so I once again say, that I reckon it's only CC that people really have any problem with yet they constantly rope the whole band into the "awful musician" category.

 

I have heard enough accounts to believe that CC was a drug-f*cked mess when it came to live performance, but on the other hand, unless they got a studio musician in to record the guitar parts, somehow the first 3 and 1/2 (The new tracks on 'Swallow this live') studio albums with CC on them have some great guitar parts - rhythm and solo. So either he could actually play at an acceptable level when he wasn't drug f*cked, or it isn't him playing.

 

Either way, as you acknowledge, they were in no way, shape or form anywhere NEAR the worst band from the 80's metal scene but their popularity and over-exposure will always lead them to mountains of unfair critisism.

[Jez]

I don't mind the first three Poison albums but Bret's solo stuff does nothing for me.

 

I was really the opposite, I always hated Poison's image-over-substance (I realise a lot of Hair Metal bands fall under this category, but Poison seriously can't play their instruments or write anything resembling a 'tune') but actually thought Michaels had a reasonable voice & his solo stuff was okay. This song is kinda okay 'ish.

I totally agree about not being able to play their instruments,saw them live back in the 80's and what a big let down.Shocking live performance,don't know how we stayed until the end as plenty didn't.Bret was the saving grace as he sang well under trying conditions.

 

That is my main issue with them aswell - a complete mess of a band in general and truly awful musicians to back it up, although Brett was the (sort of) saving grace when i saw them live, as he was not too bad (which is not necessarily a complement either, when comparing him to other front men). I will say though, that Poison weren't the only band in the genre that were awful, as out of all the bands I have seen live (and there are very many in many different genres) the Hair Metal boys/girls win hands down (coupled with a few N.W.O.B.H.M acts) for churning out the number of absolutely shocking live bands (and a couple of really good ones aswell) with as TIM quite rightly states, 'Image Over absolutely no substance (or anything else)' at all - Never a truer word.

 

 

Either way, as you acknowledge, they were in no way, shape or form anywhere NEAR the worst band from the 80's metal scene but their popularity and over-exposure will always lead them to mountains of unfair critisism.

 

No mate, Please understand that I DO put them in with the worst bands of the 80's (and any other era come to that matter) although they weren't the only one.

[Geoff]

I don't mind the first three Poison albums but Bret's solo stuff does nothing for me.

 

I was really the opposite, I always hated Poison's image-over-substance (I realise a lot of Hair Metal bands fall under this category, but Poison seriously can't play their instruments or write anything resembling a 'tune') but actually thought Michaels had a reasonable voice & his solo stuff was okay. This song is kinda okay 'ish.

I totally agree about not being able to play their instruments,saw them live back in the 80's and what a big let down.Shocking live performance,don't know how we stayed until the end as plenty didn't.Bret was the saving grace as he sang well under trying conditions.

 

That is my main issue with them aswell - a complete mess of a band in general and truly awful musicians to back it up, although Brett was the (sort of) saving grace when i saw them live, as he was not too bad (which is not necessarily a complement either, when comparing him to other front men). I will say though, that Poison weren't the only band in the genre that were awful, as out of all the bands I have seen live (and there are very many in many different genres) the Hair Metal boys/girls win hands down (coupled with a few N.W.O.B.H.M acts) for churning out the number of absolutely shocking live bands (and a couple of really good ones aswell) with as TIM quite rightly states, 'Image Over absolutely no substance (or anything else)' at all - Never a truer word.

 

 

Either way, as you acknowledge, they were in no way, shape or form anywhere NEAR the worst band from the 80's metal scene but their popularity and over-exposure will always lead them to mountains of unfair critisism.

 

No mate, Please understand that I DO put them in with the worst bands of the 80's (and any other era come to that matter) although they weren't the only one.

That could be because you suck?

[66 mustang]

I don't mind the first three Poison albums but Bret's solo stuff does nothing for me.

 

I was really the opposite, I always hated Poison's image-over-substance (I realise a lot of Hair Metal bands fall under this category, but Poison seriously can't play their instruments or write anything resembling a 'tune') but actually thought Michaels had a reasonable voice & his solo stuff was okay. This song is kinda okay 'ish.

I totally agree about not being able to play their instruments,saw them live back in the 80's and what a big let down.Shocking live performance,don't know how we stayed until the end as plenty didn't.Bret was the saving grace as he sang well under trying conditions.

 

That is my main issue with them aswell - a complete mess of a band in general and truly awful musicians to back it up, although Brett was the (sort of) saving grace when i saw them live, as he was not too bad (which is not necessarily a complement either, when comparing him to other front men). I will say though, that Poison weren't the only band in the genre that were awful, as out of all the bands I have seen live (and there are very many in many different genres) the Hair Metal boys/girls win hands down (coupled with a few N.W.O.B.H.M acts) for churning out the number of absolutely shocking live bands (and a couple of really good ones aswell) with as TIM quite rightly states, 'Image Over absolutely no substance (or anything else)' at all - Never a truer word.

I chime in everytime this gets raised and I just can't not put my two cents in again. I am grateful and I acknowledge that at least this time you mention that there were a lot worse or as "bad" bands in the genre, but still have to say this anyway:

 

Unlike you guys I've not been lucky enough to see them live so I only have the live album, '7 Days Live' video and their studio albums to go from. Even the harshest critic has admitted that Bret Michaels was a decent (and in my opinion far above average in the scheme of the whole scene) frontman, so he's obviously not the "bad musician" problem. Well, not only is Rikki Rocket decent on the '7 Days Live' video, but I thought he sounded awesome - am I meant to believe he learnt how to play the drums for the video alone and that was it? Definitely not a sub-standard drummer to these eyes and Bobby Dall - well, he's a bass player. He sounds like every other bass player (bar the Billy Sheehan's of the world) so I once again say, that I reckon it's only CC that people really have any problem with yet they constantly rope the whole band into the "awful musician" category.

 

I have heard enough accounts to believe that CC was a drug-f*cked mess when it came to live performance, but on the other hand, unless they got a studio musician in to record the guitar parts, somehow the first 3 and 1/2 (The new tracks on 'Swallow this live') studio albums with CC on them have some great guitar parts - rhythm and solo. So either he could actually play at an acceptable level when he wasn't drug f*cked, or it isn't him playing.

 

Either way, as you acknowledge, they were in no way, shape or form anywhere NEAR the worst band from the 80's metal scene but their popularity and over-exposure will always lead them to mountains of unfair critisism.

I'm in the Geoff camp here

[TIM (2)]

Unlike you guys I've not been lucky enough to see them live so I only have the live album, '7 Days Live' video and their studio albums to go from. Even the harshest critic has admitted that Bret Michaels was a decent (and in my opinion far above average in the scheme of the whole scene) frontman, so he's obviously not the "bad musician" problem. Well, not only is Rikki Rocket decent on the '7 Days Live' video, but I thought he sounded awesome - am I meant to believe he learnt how to play the drums for the video alone and that was it? Definitely not a sub-standard drummer to these eyes and Bobby Dall - well, he's a bass player. He sounds like every other bass player (bar the Billy Sheehan's of the world) so I once again say, that I reckon it's only CC that people really have any problem with yet they constantly rope the whole band into the "awful musician" category.

 

Sorry Geoff you're completely wrong. They are AWFUL musicians. To the point where it seriously impacted their ability to reproduce any of their music in the live arena. Only Michaels really held it together. Sure other bands achieved major status despite being limited on ability, but IMHO never did a band with such little talent achieve such huge fame/riches. Which incidentally they are all trying to drag into a 4th decade while lowering themselves to new depths of reality TV, humiliations etc etc.

[Geoff]

Unlike you guys I've not been lucky enough to see them live so I only have the live album, '7 Days Live' video and their studio albums to go from. Even the harshest critic has admitted that Bret Michaels was a decent (and in my opinion far above average in the scheme of the whole scene) frontman, so he's obviously not the "bad musician" problem. Well, not only is Rikki Rocket decent on the '7 Days Live' video, but I thought he sounded awesome - am I meant to believe he learnt how to play the drums for the video alone and that was it? Definitely not a sub-standard drummer to these eyes and Bobby Dall - well, he's a bass player. He sounds like every other bass player (bar the Billy Sheehan's of the world) so I once again say, that I reckon it's only CC that people really have any problem with yet they constantly rope the whole band into the "awful musician" category.

 

Sorry Geoff you're completely wrong. They are AWFUL musicians. To the point where it seriously impacted their ability to reproduce any of their music in the live arena. Only Michaels really held it together. Sure other bands achieved major status despite being limited on ability, but IMHO never did a band with such little talent achieve such huge fame/riches. Which incidentally they are all trying to drag into a 4th decade while lowering themselves to new depths of reality TV, humiliations etc etc.

So explain to me how Rikki Rocket plays the drums so well on the 'Seven Days Live' video? Did someone skin him and wear his flesh for the duration of the show?

 

And seriously, what's so wrong with Bobby Dall? What do all the other 80's bass players do that he can't do?

 

Either way, even if you were right, this only goes further to back up one of my biggest gripes with music fans. SO many people think that in order for a band to actually be good they need to be amazing musicians. As I've said all along, it's only the actual songs that count. Poison weren't the greatest musicians yet they still wrote great songs and made it, based on those songs. So CC Deville can't play like Satriani or Vai, but I'd bet more people here own Poison CDs than they do Vai or Satriani CDs.

 

Seriously, what's your big issue with amazing songs like 'No more lookin' back', 'Only time will tell', 'So tell me why', 'Ride the wind', 'Life loves a tragedy', 'Valley of lost souls', 'Come hell or high water' etc. etc. I understand when guys like Dave, Jez or Keith (for example) speak ill of Poison because we have very little / next to nothing in common in terms of musical taste, but we're really not too dissimilar in what we like. I can't see how you could have such a big problem with this stuff unless it was something personal against the band and their success, rather than just the songs alone.

[Metal T]

It's so easy to rip these guys..but ill just say they were inept but adequate enough to get by.That said,I see so many bands in clubs nowadays that are all tatted up,screaming bullsh*t caveman vocals through the mic with the band downtuned so flat its a joke. Even though im not a 'Poison' fan,id rather see a band of that ilk as opposed to some band who crank the volume so loud that it just sounds like a wall of noise.The only time i ever saw 'Poison' was when Kotzen was in the band,and they sounded ALOT better with him,yet anyone with a good ear could tell that CC was the weak link in that band.

[Dave]

It's so easy to rip these guys..but ill just say they were inept but adequate enough to get by.That said,I see so many bands in clubs nowadays that are all tatted up,screaming bullsh*t caveman vocals through the mic with the band downtuned so flat its a joke. Even though im not a 'Poison' fan,id rather see a band of that ilk as opposed to some band who crank the volume so loud that it just sounds like a wall of noise.The only time i ever saw 'Poison' was when Kotzen was in the band,and they sounded ALOT better with him,yet anyone with a good ear could tell that CC was the weak link in that band.

 

Love him or hate him, Kotzen can seriously play the guitar

[Geoff]

It's so easy to rip these guys..but ill just say they were inept but adequate enough to get by.That said,I see so many bands in clubs nowadays that are all tatted up,screaming bullsh*t caveman vocals through the mic with the band downtuned so flat its a joke. Even though im not a 'Poison' fan,id rather see a band of that ilk as opposed to some band who crank the volume so loud that it just sounds like a wall of noise.The only time i ever saw 'Poison' was when Kotzen was in the band,and they sounded ALOT better with him,yet anyone with a good ear could tell that CC was the weak link in that band.

 

Love him or hate him, Kotzen can seriously play the guitar

Listening to the album now. No doubt it's a great disc and he is a great player, but man I wish they'd gone with someone like Sarenceno right away. One thing I love on early Poison albums is their backing / harmony vocals. Perfect sound, to me. Koetzen brings his rough, graspy and aquired taste vocals to the band and it brings a whole different sound to the band that, despite the fact the album is very good, I feel his personal style brings the album down a bit. If they had the "smoother" Sarenceno in the band right after CC I have a feeling that the 'Native Tongue' album would have been a little more successful. And better.

 

Either way, it's a whole lot of 'ifs' and what's done is done and they got a good disc with Koetzen.

[hardrockhaven]

I've seen Poison in concert Geoff. They put on a good show and I had a great time. Bret is an excellent front-man. And yes, the rest of the band played their instruments just fine too. Not sure where all the hate comes from on these guys. Granted, it still weirds me out that Bret is doing a duet with a teen-ager, but I digress. Other than that, rock on Brett!

[Captain Howdy]

I was at the Hammersmith show that was recorded for the 7 days live DVD and album, and the band were fucking great.

I've not seen DeVille play in person, but I have heard enough of his live tracks to know he is far from the worst guitarist out there.

And to anyone who says stuff like, style of substance, thats just pure bollocks of the highest order.