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For me, while I only want originals in my collection (unless of course its unreleased material), if an album is officially released on a CDR (as some new small bands do these days), then I have no problem with that.

It might be a CDR, but at least its an official release if that makes sense!

 

For instance, from memory, I seem to recall that the country demos CD availbable direct from Bret Michaels was a CDR.

That was about as official as you can get, and was never available on any other format, so who am I to complain?

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As you all know who I am this is STARYDER1, I for one am a serious cd collector, as well as I enjoy the music. I will add only silver pressed cds to my collection in my quest of 10,000 quanity quality cds I only buy cdrs if they are band released I don't buy from these record companies that re-release older collectable cds on cdr format with or without the bands permission I rather spend $$ on a orginal silver pressed cd becuase I can afford it! Its like someone else said cd ccollecting its like collecting coins like would you want an orginal morgan head silver dollar or a cheap re-issuse. :banger: Long live Rock N Roll

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Delbert - do you burn those cdr's before sending back to CdBaby? - and be HONEST.

 

Sam

 

No.....I don't......It has only happened a handful of times. Since then, I call them on the phone to check first. I just will not buy a CDR....that is just me......I look everywhere and people are burning and trading these CDRs all over the world.....I don't see people sending out lists of titles they have and offering to sell a CDR for $XXX or whatever....they trade them!!! A CDR is just a temporary media to me. A quickie if you will to satisfy a craving to hear something......not something to collect and keep for a long period of time. I'm sorry, I know you are pretty heavily into CDRs. That fits into your method of operation nicely, but, I just cannot bring myself to purchase a CDR.

 

I even suggested to CD Baby that they list in their descriptions if the title is on CDR media and they said they have considered it because they have a number of customers who do not want the CDRs. Most of the reissue titles I see being released on CDR are available either on Cassette or vinyl and I can transfer those to a CDR myself. In fact, it is very unfortunate that some of the titles I've transferred in the past and eventually traded over time have ended up being sold on E Bay as legitimate titles by bootleggers.....I've observed my Unique artwork that I did in the transfers......it was never my intent that these titles be sold like that.

 

Back to your question though.......when I get a title that I ordered and it comes in CDR format, the most prominent thing on my mind is disgust, I feel cheated and just want to send it back for a refund!!!

 

 

Delbert

 

Sam

 

Let me add one more thing to the CDR issue.....to me, the CDR thing leaves a taste of being "home made" in my mouth. Something less than top quality.........that's how I visualize it.

 

Delbert

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I don't really give a sh*t how much any of my individual CDs are "worth" because I'm not a buying/selling wheeler-dealer. Do I own some CDs that are worth some coin? Yeah. Am I going to sell them because they're worth some coin? No, because I'd rather listen to the music contained on them.

 

And that's all I'm EVER going to say on this topic cuz it's a hot button...

Leave it to Keef to state it so perfectly!!!! I :drink: totally agree!!!

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Delbert , before I say this know that I mean no disrespect as I do actually understand (to a degree) what you are saying.

 

I am glad that you are in the minority , there are thousands of people around the world who have bought Retrospect product and are happy that the products have become available on cd (silver , blue , black , polka-dot , whatever) as they would not have heard the music otherwise. Most people don't want to dick around with transferring cassettes / LP's to cd. Not to mention that quite a few of the cd's I have released have never been released before in ANY format. The many emails I receive on a weekly basis are justification enough , but besides that it's the bands I support more than anything. Just read that email from Dan McCafferty of Wild August (retrospect forum). If that isn't a heartwarming email then I don't know what is.

 

In my opinion a true fan buys music from a label (or band) to support the "scene" , the band and the artists who created it.

 

Example - Fortress "Hands in the Till" (who have just been signed by Retrospect) had their album on CDbaby for like $12. It may have been a crudely made cd-r but Charlie Souza did it for the many fans who were bugging him to make it available. I , for one , supported him and bought that cd-r because it's a great freaking album , then subsequently signed a contract with him. My release will be much more professionally done (like all my newer releases). The true fans of Fortress bought that cd-r because of the music and not what the format was. Makes sense doesn't it. Let's see - fork out a few bucks to the man who created the music or fuck him over and burn it / trade it?

 

I have come to know the "habits" of quite a few self-professed "collectors" whether it be here or on Ebay and I know who the true fans are and who the obvious greed-meisters are.

 

If you don't want cd-r's in your collection thats fine (hell the only cd-r's I have in my collection are the Retrospect ones) , I'm just glad that thousands of people around the world don't share the same views (otherwise I'd be out of business - lol).

 

 

I do believe though Delbert that your true colors come out in this statement...

 

"Let me add one more thing to the CDR issue.....to me, the CDR thing leaves a taste of being "home made" in my mouth. Something less than top quality.........that's how I visualize it."

 

Right there you prove how the FORMAT of a release is more important than the music itself. You are not a true fan Del , sorry man , but I personally find it offensive when someone makes comments like that. I cannot take you seriously when you make those kind of comments and I'm not alone.

 

Finally , I'd like to add that "homemade" apple pie and "homemade" ice cream pisses all over the manufactured crap in the stores....

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Not a good analogy though, IMHO cd-r's are a far cry from "pissing all over" silver pressed. Also in saying this I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but to me a cd-r is a temporary measure until I get the real thing. I think your product looks really good and it definitely makes a lot of people happy. That being said, I don't think you can expect to convert everyone out there to your views on the unimportance of format.

 

I absolutely consider myself a fan of the music but I just happen to prefer silver-pressed. In saying that, I will also say that your cd-r's are about 1000 steps above the typical homemade, labeled cd-r's with inkjet inserts and it's obviously finding it's market niche based on your ability to continue to invest in new acts, etc. Whether you do it for love or money (or a combination of the two) the bottom line is that you are bringing a lot of bands to the table that would never have had the chance otherwise.

 

As is often the case with these threads, you (and others) have one opinion and then there are a bunch of people with opposite opinions. The main difference I see with this one is that it's been pretty damn civilized, which is pretty awesome in my book.

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Sam

 

I didn't say I didn't have any CDRs in my collection.....I've got quite a few, mostly stuff that I've transferred from vinyl and cassette over the years......why, because I love the music.

 

I've got some CDRs I've traded with other people to hear what an album sounds like. I listen and if it's something I like.....the hunt is on!!!

 

Good example.......a little over a year ago, Tony (Koogles) put up THE TAKE - New Language on one of his auctions. I'd never heard of this band before and it really looked interesting......appearing to fall into the genre of music I really like. Tony was kind enough to send me a CDR to hear them (we have sent one another CDRs of rare titles to hear several times). When I got it, I loved it and knew right away it was something that was going on my want list. I finally met up with another collector who had a copy available and we pulled off a swap. I now have an original in my collection....

 

That's just how the CDR thing works with me......as I said, a temporary media.

 

And Sam, shame on you for even making a statement such as "I have come to know the "habits" of quite a few self-professed "collectors" whether it be here or on Ebay and I know who the true fans are and who the obvious greed-meisters are." Surely you weren't inferring anything were you?

 

Having been at this many many years, I know many true fans and I can also recognize obvious greed-meisters.........

 

I also heartily agree with you that I am probably in the minority on this CDR thing.....the whole thing works for you, so by all means, do what works for you.

 

Oh.....I do love home-made apple pie, and ice cream much better than that store bought crap......

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Good points from both Delbert and Blue Charvel. I'm glad we (mainly me - lol) kept this civil as I do accept , understand and realize both sides of the coin.

 

:drink:

 

P.S. As a label-owner it can be extremely difficult sometimes deciding whether to silver-press a release or do high quality cd-r's. I've had disappointments and surprises. It's all a learning process.

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Example - Fortress "Hands in the Till" (who have just been signed by Retrospect) had their album on CDbaby for like $12. It may have been a crudely made cd-r but Charlie Souza did it for the many fans who were bugging him to make it available. I , for one , supported him and bought that cd-r because it's a great freaking album , then subsequently signed a contract with him. My release will be much more professionally done (like all my newer releases). The true fans of Fortress bought that cd-r because of the music and not what the format was. Makes sense doesn't it. Let's see - fork out a few bucks to the man who created the music or fuck him over and burn it / trade it?

 

I will voice in on this statement and hold my tongue on many other slanderous remarks made about a great group of people on this board, Sam you are included in this statement, when you are not chopping folks off at the kneecaps for disagreeing with you.

 

Maybe I am alone on this and that is fine, but I don't see the comparison between you making cdr's of Joe Shmoes music and paying him and Joe Shmoe burning the cdr's himself and selling them??? Why not cut out the middleman and do it yourself? (you will note that this statement is referring to CDR'S only!!!!!)

 

And for the record, I collect music for the music!! My collection is only 1/2 of staryder1's (who's is a stand up guy and it saddens me to see the way he gets/getting bashed for his opinion on what he wants to achieve, which is a great collection of great music, one he and every one else would be proud to own!) I have cdr's, both traded for ones, which like Delbert they are their to listen to and enjoy until I find the real deal and Band produced ones, some really well done and others as best as they could do, but at least all of my hard earned dollars went directly to the band.

Thanks for the great debate guys.

Terry

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Not a good analogy though, IMHO cd-r's are a far cry from "pissing all over" silver pressed. Also in saying this I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but to me a cd-r is a temporary measure until I get the real thing. I think your product looks really good and it definitely makes a lot of people happy. That being said, I don't think you can expect to convert everyone out there to your views on the unimportance of format.

 

I absolutely consider myself a fan of the music but I just happen to prefer silver-pressed. In saying that, I will also say that your cd-r's are about 1000 steps above the typical homemade, labeled cd-r's with inkjet inserts and it's obviously finding it's market niche based on your ability to continue to invest in new acts, etc. Whether you do it for love or money (or a combination of the two) the bottom line is that you are bringing a lot of bands to the table that would never have had the chance otherwise.

 

As is often the case with these threads, you (and others) have one opinion and then there are a bunch of people with opposite opinions. The main difference I see with this one is that it's been pretty damn civilized, which is pretty awesome in my book.

 

 

Very eloquently put Pete and pretty much what I would have said, but you have done it better than I would have. :drink:

 

Sam make sure you let us all know when the Fortess & Fierce Heart discs are avaliable won't ya. I am after a couple of others as well from you that I will do at the same time. :drink:

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Right there you prove how the FORMAT of a release is more important than the music itself. You are not a true fan Del , sorry man , but I personally find it offensive when someone makes comments like that. I cannot take you seriously when you make those kind of comments and I'm not alone.

 

Sam

 

Let me ask you.......how about releasing some of your titles on cassette......or better still, how about releasing some of it on 8 track........???

 

Oh, FORMAT is important then, right?

 

People have format preferences........they love music, but they sure as hell won't line your pockets if you start selling your titles on cassette only or 8 track?

 

You can twist and turn this arguement many different ways.....the bottom line is CDR releases are to CD collecting like a Yugo is to Livery Company.......the CDR and pressed CD both have music on them and the Yogo and the Cadillac both have wheels, but, that's where the similiarity ends......

 

With all due respect, I seriously think that if you put aside all the Rockit - Sock-it - Time - Warp and other questionable titles you've been selling and seriously go 100% into legit releases pressed on silver discs, your label would truly be top contender in the rock music industry. There would be no question in anyone's mind as to the quality and legitimacy of the title. You have a sense of what music is in demand, which is seriously needed for a reissue label, and apparently some good connections to work to that end......use those talents and bring total integrity to your efforts.......you've put out some very good legit releases on your label (more and more as time goes along), such as that DefCon release you so kindly sent me. You'll pick up more customers that will spend much more to support your releases. This is just my point of view and you can knock it down if you choose, but, I watched what you've done and you can do it and do it right if you chose to.

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Ok, just to try and clarify something here (and this isnt a dig at anyone).

 

As I understand it, some of you wont buy or dont like albums that are re-issued on CDR, which I can sorta understand.

But if an album of material is released by a band on a CDR, and the material on that CDR has never been available in any format, and the only way to get it officially, is to buy a CDR, would you pass it up?

 

Lets say a reasonably successful band like Firehouse decided that it was gonna release an album of previously unavailable demos, and decided to release it themselves on CDR, would you refuse to buy it?

 

Or what if a newer band like Miss Crazy released their second album on CDR, and you thought their debut was brilliant, would you pass up the second album purely based on it being a CDR?

 

(In both those cases feel free to replace the bands with bands you actually like, I'm just trying nail things down a bit).

 

 

In recent years we have seen a rash of previously unreleased material by bands like Jesse Strange, Wildside & Kingofthehill, which was all good, but would these have been any less good if they werent silver pressed?

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Ok, just to try and clarify something here (and this isnt a dig at anyone).

 

As I understand it, some of you wont buy or dont like albums that are re-issued on CDR, which I can sorta understand.

But if an album of material is released by a band on a CDR, and the material on that CDR has never been available in any format, and the only way to get it officially, is to buy a CDR, would you pass it up?

 

Lets say a reasonably successful band like Firehouse decided that it was gonna release an album of previously unavailable demos, and decided to release it themselves on CDR, would you refuse to buy it?

 

Or what if a newer band like Miss Crazy released their second album on CDR, and you thought their debut was brilliant, would you pass up the second album purely based on it being a CDR?

 

(In both those cases feel free to replace the bands with bands you actually like, I'm just trying nail things down a bit).

 

 

In recent years we have seen a rash of previously unreleased material by bands like Jesse Strange, Wildside & Kingofthehill, which was all good, but would these have been any less good if they werent silver pressed?

 

 

Captain, read my post a few up where I stated exactly what you asked...

 

BTW: my answer is yes. Why? Anyone can make a cdr. Anyone can print quality artwork for said cdr. Why not do it yourself (bands)!

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Another point that I don't think anyone has brought up is the question of a CDR's durability. I know that I've had more than 1 CDR that has gotten minor scratches on it & won't play for shit. Also, I've had a couple others that have had chunks of the playing surface come off (don't have any idea how *that* happened), & of course, they are now useless. CD's have been around for what, almost 30 years now. I've never had problems with them like I've had with stuff on CDR. I know that there are "cheap" CDR's & there are higher quality ones, but you never know what kind you're getting when you buy something that's released on that format. That's a big reason why I stick with silver pressed stuff.

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Ok, just to try and clarify something here (and this isnt a dig at anyone).

 

As I understand it, some of you wont buy or dont like albums that are re-issued on CDR, which I can sorta understand.

But if an album of material is released by a band on a CDR, and the material on that CDR has never been available in any format, and the only way to get it officially, is to buy a CDR, would you pass it up?

 

Lets say a reasonably successful band like Firehouse decided that it was gonna release an album of previously unavailable demos, and decided to release it themselves on CDR, would you refuse to buy it?

 

In 98% of the cases, I would have to say YES!!!

 

If it was something I really really was after and I just couldn't live with out it, then I may drop the barrier for that title, but, I wouldn't like it!!!

 

This FORMAT 'thing' has alot to do with my experience with longivity and reliability of the CDR format. It is not an exact science as we all know.....so many different dyes, various machines do not like certain dye formats, then there is the heat and humidity factor that breaks down the CDR dyes........CDRs are not as durable as pressed discs. I also feel they are inferior to a silver pressed disc......

 

It can be compared to any other marketable product......If the public won't buy them, the sellers won't sell them as an alternative to a pressed silver disc

 

Would you enjoy going to the local mall to buy the new "XXXX" CD released on BMG or Sony and find a CDR!!! You would immediately think you were either ripped off or feel like you got something cheap.....after all, this is Sony or BMG. This is major label stuff......these are the big $$$ guys.......If a band released it privately and you bought it, it would be okay right?

 

Everyone has there preferences....that's what makes the world go around, I just don't buy CDRs.........I record on them and trade them, but I don't buy them.

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I will voice in on this statement and hold my tongue on many other slanderous remarks made about a great group of people on this board, Sam you are included in this statement, when you are not chopping folks off at the kneecaps for disagreeing with you.

 

Maybe I am alone on this and that is fine, but I don't see the comparison between you making cdr's of Joe Shmoes music and paying him and Joe Shmoe burning the cdr's himself and selling them??? Why not cut out the middleman and do it yourself? (you will note that this statement is referring to CDR'S only!!!!!)

 

And for the record, I collect music for the music!! My collection is only 1/2 of staryder1's (who's is a stand up guy and it saddens me to see the way he gets/getting bashed for his opinion on what he wants to achieve, which is a great collection of great music, one he and every one else would be proud to own!) I have cdr's, both traded for ones, which like Delbert they are their to listen to and enjoy until I find the real deal and Band produced ones, some really well done and others as best as they could do, but at least all of my hard earned dollars went directly to the band.

Thanks for the great debate guys.

Terry

 

 

Not sure what you mean in your second paragraph. #1 I front the money and #2 my customer base far surpasses many bands who just put a page up and/or put their stuff on cdbaby. I think most people would be surprised at the sales figures. There's a reason bands sign to labels.

 

Who's bashing Staryder? I hope you're not saying me. He instigated a war by suggesting my Blind Gypsy release was a boot. He deserved the mouthful I gave him. End of story.

 

You won't find the "real deal" of bands like Wild August , Tyger Tyger , Mariah , Lazy Susan , Defcon and tons of other Retrospect releases - many of them were never released on cd before. Does that mean you won't buy them because you are suggesting I do not pay my bands???

 

 

 

 

Another point that I don't think anyone has brought up is the question of a CDR's durability. I know that I've had more than 1 CDR that has gotten minor scratches on it & won't play for shit. Also, I've had a couple others that have had chunks of the playing surface come off (don't have any idea how *that* happened), & of course, they are now useless. CD's have been around for what, almost 30 years now. I've never had problems with them like I've had with stuff on CDR. I know that there are "cheap" CDR's & there are higher quality ones, but you never know what kind you're getting when you buy something that's released on that format. That's a big reason why I stick with silver pressed stuff.

 

The mega-high quality cd-r's my manufacturer has been using are guaranteed to last 5 times as long as a regular cd.

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Another point that I don't think anyone has brought up is the question of a CDR's durability. I know that I've had more than 1 CDR that has gotten minor scratches on it & won't play for shit. Also, I've had a couple others that have had chunks of the playing surface come off (don't have any idea how *that* happened), & of course, they are now useless. CD's have been around for what, almost 30 years now. I've never had problems with them like I've had with stuff on CDR. I know that there are "cheap" CDR's & there are higher quality ones, but you never know what kind you're getting when you buy something that's released on that format. That's a big reason why I stick with silver pressed stuff.

 

The mega-high quality cd-r's my manufacturer has been using are guaranteed to last 5 times as long as a regular cd.

 

Cool...that's nice to know Sam. Thanks for the info. :drink:

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I find this topic rather interesting knowing that the mainstream music media is quickly changing to downloadable files......the generations that are coming up couldn't care less about packaging and artwork, etc....at least the MAJORITY seem to not, and would gladly download a song..or an album...and put it on their computer or iPod...and off they go.......

 

So, the interesting thing.....will be what happens to this 'CD media' in 10 years time......

 

 

 

As for the discussion on CDr's and 'silver pressed' discs, I've enjoyed opinions on both sides of the coin....and both sides have their merits, etc. But, truly.....it boils down to personal preference......no more...no less.....and there is NO right or wrong in this situation.

 

As for preference....hell...I buy CASSETTES...demo cassettes ALL THE TIME....VINYL, too....and spend just as much as I would on them as I would a CD. Of course.....I love to have them eventually transferred, professionally to CD.....but that is mainly for 'ease of use' with the CD format *i.e. track changing* and for storage in my collection. And...mainly....because I have found so many demo cassettes that were never released in any CD format...etc....and would never have been able to discover some kickass music if I had 'pidgeonholed' myself into collecting just CD's.

 

It's almost as if there is a stigma attached to the 'collecting scene' that if it's NOT a cd release...then it can't be good, therefore I won't waste my time, etc. It's odd to me.......I'll see people spend in upwards of $500 for a 'semi good' Indie CD, or even some that totally suck......and not even try to spend $20 on one that totally kicks its ass sonically. THAT is what baffles me......

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I will voice in on this statement and hold my tongue on many other slanderous remarks made about a great group of people on this board, Sam you are included in this statement, when you are not chopping folks off at the kneecaps for disagreeing with you.

 

Maybe I am alone on this and that is fine, but I don't see the comparison between you making cdr's of Joe Shmoes music and paying him and Joe Shmoe burning the cdr's himself and selling them??? Why not cut out the middleman and do it yourself? (you will note that this statement is referring to CDR'S only!!!!!)

 

And for the record, I collect music for the music!! My collection is only 1/2 of staryder1's (who's is a stand up guy and it saddens me to see the way he gets/getting bashed for his opinion on what he wants to achieve, which is a great collection of great music, one he and every one else would be proud to own!) I have cdr's, both traded for ones, which like Delbert they are their to listen to and enjoy until I find the real deal and Band produced ones, some really well done and others as best as they could do, but at least all of my hard earned dollars went directly to the band.

Thanks for the great debate guys.

Terry

 

 

Not sure what you mean in your second paragraph. #1 I front the money and #2 my customer base far surpasses many bands who just put a page up and/or put their stuff on cdbaby. I think most people would be surprised at the sales figures. There's a reason bands sign to labels.

 

Who's bashing Staryder? I hope you're not saying me. He instigated a war by suggesting my Blind Gypsy release was a boot. He deserved the mouthful I gave him. End of story.

 

You won't find the "real deal" of bands like Wild August , Tyger Tyger , Mariah , Lazy Susan , Defcon and tons of other Retrospect releases - many of them were never released on cd before. Does that mean you won't buy them because you are suggesting I do not pay my bands???

 

 

Reread my post. I am glad and I know you pay your bands, I am saying they can put out a cdr of their material just as easily as you can...

 

And your last statement about the fist full of bands I "won't" find the real deal... two statements: cd is not the only medium collectable or worth having and if your releases where all silver pressed than these topics would be for not.

 

As JLPRocks puts it, buying only cd's limits your collecting. I always cruise the vinyl bins and cassette racks looking for the oddball releases, not unlike some of your cherished releases. (I have some damn impossible to find releases on cassette and record. Ever hear of a band called Upper Echelon? or Syngiin? How about Kill D' Kor, Brigand Raid or Talks Cheap??? All kick ass bands that have releases out on vinyl and cassette. Would these make great cd releases? Sure, but until they do I know I got them. And in their originally released formats)

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The mega-high quality cd-r's my manufacturer has been using are guaranteed to last 5 times as long as a regular cd.

 

Sam

 

Your manufacturer can make all sorts of claims concerning his product.......they all do. You want to read the bottom line from the experts? Check with MEDIA SCIENCES, that's what they do is test and evaluate DVD and CDR media.

 

CDRs degrade over time.....the degradation is related to various environmental and handling conditions. Audio CDRs are more likely to fail than Data CDRs due to the fact that audio is bitstream.

This is why we have error correction on our CD players.....unlike data CDRs, an audio track is a collection of sequential blocks of that bitstream and is designated in the TOC. Tracks must be split on block boundaries. Addressing in the TOC is in terms of blocks and you cannot split more finely than that. Each block on an audio CD is 1/75th second. If any block becomes corrupted (due to environmental or handling conditions) the error correction layer must work harder to fill in the missing pieces until eventually, the bitstream is corrupted and unplayable or noise such as clicks and pops begin entering into the equation.

 

 

I find this topic rather interesting knowing that the mainstream music media is quickly changing to downloadable files......the generations that are coming up couldn't care less about packaging and artwork, etc....at least the MAJORITY seem to not, and would gladly download a song..or an album...and put it on their computer or iPod...and off they go.......

 

So, the interesting thing.....will be what happens to this 'CD media' in 10 years time......

 

 

 

As for the discussion on CDr's and 'silver pressed' discs, I've enjoyed opinions on both sides of the coin....and both sides have their merits, etc. But, truly.....it boils down to personal preference......no more...no less.....and there is NO right or wrong in this situation.

 

As for preference....hell...I buy CASSETTES...demo cassettes ALL THE TIME....VINYL, too....and spend just as much as I would on them as I would a CD. Of course.....I love to have them eventually transferred, professionally to CD.....but that is mainly for 'ease of use' with the CD format *i.e. track changing* and for storage in my collection. And...mainly....because I have found so many demo cassettes that were never released in any CD format...etc....and would never have been able to discover some kickass music if I had 'pidgeonholed' myself into collecting just CD's.

 

It's almost as if there is a stigma attached to the 'collecting scene' that if it's NOT a cd release...then it can't be good, therefore I won't waste my time, etc. It's odd to me.......I'll see people spend in upwards of $500 for a 'semi good' Indie CD, or even some that totally suck......and not even try to spend $20 on one that totally kicks its ass sonically. THAT is what baffles me......

 

 

Excellent summation Jim........it really all boils down to personal preferences!

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The mega-high quality cd-r's my manufacturer has been using are guaranteed to last 5 times as long as a regular cd.

 

Sam

 

Your manufacturer can make all sorts of claims concerning his product.......they all do. You want to read the bottom line from the experts? Check with MEDIA SCIENCES, that's what they do is test and evaluate DVD and CDR media.

 

CDRs degrade over time.....the degradation is related to various environmental and handling conditions. Audio CDRs are more likely to fail than Data CDRs due to the fact that audio is bitstream.

This is why we have error correction on our CD players.....unlike data CDRs, an audio track is a collection of sequential blocks of that bitstream and is designated in the TOC. Tracks must be split on block boundaries. Addressing in the TOC is in terms of blocks and you cannot split more finely than that. Each block on an audio CD is 1/75th second. If any block becomes corrupted (due to environmental or handling conditions) the error correction layer must work harder to fill in the missing pieces until eventually, the bitstream is corrupted and unplayable or noise such as clicks and pops begin entering into the equation.

 

This is completely correct. I've read about burned CDr's and 'pressed' media and this qualitative assessment based on the inability of a burned CDr...at least at this time, to be able to completely duplicate the bitstream of the files.

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I find this topic rather interesting knowing that the mainstream music media is quickly changing to downloadable files......the generations that are coming up couldn't care less about packaging and artwork, etc....at least the MAJORITY seem to not, and would gladly download a song..or an album...and put it on their computer or iPod...and off they go.......

 

So, the interesting thing.....will be what happens to this 'CD media' in 10 years time......

 

 

 

As for the discussion on CDr's and 'silver pressed' discs, I've enjoyed opinions on both sides of the coin....and both sides have their merits, etc. But, truly.....it boils down to personal preference......no more...no less.....and there is NO right or wrong in this situation.

 

As for preference....hell...I buy CASSETTES...demo cassettes ALL THE TIME....VINYL, too....and spend just as much as I would on them as I would a CD. Of course.....I love to have them eventually transferred, professionally to CD.....but that is mainly for 'ease of use' with the CD format *i.e. track changing* and for storage in my collection. And...mainly....because I have found so many demo cassettes that were never released in any CD format...etc....and would never have been able to discover some kickass music if I had 'pidgeonholed' myself into collecting just CD's.

 

It's almost as if there is a stigma attached to the 'collecting scene' that if it's NOT a cd release...then it can't be good, therefore I won't waste my time, etc. It's odd to me.......I'll see people spend in upwards of $500 for a 'semi good' Indie CD, or even some that totally suck......and not even try to spend $20 on one that totally kicks its ass sonically. THAT is what baffles me......

I pretty much agree with what you are saying here.

While I dont generally buy anything other than CDs, there have been odd occasions over the last few years where I have bought an album on vinyl or tape as its never been available on CD, and I really want an original copy (and have the option to transfer to CDR to play it until a record label or band one day decides to re-release it).

 

The whole $500 for an indy CD that totally sucks sorta brings us back to the whole "collecting" for value rather than for the music doesnt it!

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I don't collect for resale value as I have absolutely no intention of selling any of my CD's. However, as a collector I do enjoy adding items that are considered rare even if I don't particularly enjoy the music itself. I am also one of those OCD collector's always looking for MINT condition discs and inserts and accept nothing less, even if it means I spend more than I should (as I often do).

 

Collecting CD's is much the same as collecting anything else. Contrary to popular belief, serious stamp collectors would NOT rather have a photocopy of a $500.00 stamp than the actual stamp itself. Same goes for me with my music CD's. I don't want a CD-R of YALE BATE - BUSINESS OR PLEASURE, I want the real thing (and I don't even care for the band all that much).

 

It's a hobby, and no one should be criticized for any anything they collect. I think Barbie-Dolls are 100% idiotic, but I'm guessing there are more than a few collectors out there with $100,000.00 collections. To each there own.

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To each their own.

 

:agree: That's what it all comes down to and fuck anyone who criticizes other peoples' personal choices IMHO.

 

:agree: 100% !! :drink:

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