CD's that have been BOOTLEGGED 4/5/2007

[eaglesfan3000]

As talkin about the CASANOVA "Same" CD: The Matrix from the original is 903174215-2 RSA. The catalog number is 9031-74215-2 . See pic below

 

 

I've also noticed that the last 5 or 6 numbers on the matrix is the catalog number and the last numbers on the bar code. I've also noticed that all record labels do not do it this way.

[shotgun messiah]

As talkin about the CASANOVA "Same" CD: The Matrix from the original is 903174215-2 RSA. The catalog number is 9031-74215-2 . See pic below

 

 

Can you please tell me how to upload a photo and post photos?Thanks!

[shotgun messiah]

As I promised,here is the post where I will try to explain the differences between original CDs and bootlegs.

Firstly,please have in mind that everything that I will write is based to my personal experience.That means that I am refering to Greek bootlegs,because I am Greek.I have heard that there are also Russian and German bootlegs but I don't know the differences.It is very possible that they are the same.Greek bootlegs are made by original Greek CD factories (of course without having the rights and they are illegal) to my knowledge.It's a certain person that runs the whole bussiness and he just gives a prototype CD to the factory and the factory makes him many copies at a small cost.That means that the CDs are not totally crap (speaking about quality) like CD-Rs and burned CDs,but they are not as good as the original CDs of course.Most of bootlegs are hard to find CDs and in low prices,so they can attract the interest of collectors or individuals that don't want to spend a lot of money to buy a certain CD or they see these CDs as special and one-in-a-million oportunities.These bootlegs are also being sold in stores that sell only rock and metal CDs in Athens.Of course the owners of these stores will never inform you about these CDs and they will sell these at the prices of an original CD (sad but true-that's how the market works:You buy this crap for 3 or 5 Euros,and you sell it at the price of 10,15,20 or even 25 Euros).As you can see,and most of you already know,the crime is well-orginized...

The most common,basic and maybe the best way to see if a CD is bootleg is to see it's matrix code.The matrix code is a line of numbers and a few letters on the inner ring at the back of the CD.I must also inform you about the catalogue number:it's also a line of numbers and letters that are written at the side of backinsert of a CD,and you can see it at the side of the jewel case.I hope that you understand what I mean...So,the original CDs usually have as matrix code their catalogue number (there are some exceptions,such as some japanese CDs) followed by some numbers or letters or even both numbers or letters (sometimes,even small barcodes-some japanese pressings).Bootlegs have the same matrix and catalogue numbers,or more possibly they have as matrix code the name of the band's CD or the name of the certain album.I will explain it better by using examples and photos (when someone will finally show me how to upload and post them).

 

General Example (I first make the analysis with a general,simple example,because the examples that I will write later may confuse you a bit)

Band:Fuckers of bootlegers-Album:bootlegers suck our dicks

1.Bootleg

a.Catalogue Number:BSOD-69

b.Matrix number:"BSOD-69" or "bootlegers suck our dicks"

2.Original

a.Catalogue Number:BSOD-69

b.Matrix number:BSOD-69 AO1 (if it is a japanese CD,it may have a small barcode after the matrix code)

 

Some examples from CDs I own

A.Lion-Dangerous Attraction (japanese version-I have the bootleged 1st press and the original special edition reissue-have in mind that catalogue numbers are different in different issues of the same CD)

1.Bootleg

a.Catalogue Number:PCCY-00014

b.Matrix number:PCCY-00014

2.Original

a.Catalogue Number:PCCY-00542

b.Matrix number:PCCY-00542 3,followed by a small barcode

 

B.Heavens Edge-Heavens Edge (Bootleged European press and original japanese press)

1.Bootleg

a.Catalogue number:466816 2

b.Matrix number:Heavens Edge (!)

2.Original

a.Catalogue number:CSCS 5183

b.Matrix number:DP-3807 1 followed by barcode (the japanese exceptions I was talking about-a european or american CD could have this matrix:CSCS 5183 1 or CSCS 5183 RTS 13)

 

C.Lionheart-Hot Tonight (japanese version bootleg and original)

1.Bootleg

a.Catalogue number:SRCS-6245

b.Matrix number:SRCS-6245

2.Original

a.Catalogue number:SRCS-6245

b.Matrix number:DPA-1788 1 followed by barcode (japanese exception)

 

D.Treat-scratch and bite CD (japanese version-I have the bootleged 1st press and the original reissue)

1.Bootleg

a.Catalogue number:PPD-3100

b.Matrix number:PPD-3100

2.Original

a.Catalogue number:PHCR-4199

b.Matrix number:824 353-2- 2F V (another exception:some japanese pressings issued with a matrix code which is the european's version catalogue number followed by some numbers and letters)

 

E.Lillian Axe-Lillian Axe (japanese version bootleg and original)

Bootleg

a.Catalogue number:MVCM-21061

b.Matrix number:MVCM-21061

Original

a.Catalogue number:MVCM-21061

b.Matrix number:MVCM-21061-1- 2M V

 

I hope that you understand what I mean at this point.

 

Another way to understand if a CD is bootleg is too see very carefully the colour of booklets and inserts (also obi,if you have a japanese version).The colouris darker or lighter than the original.You can see also the CDs:letters,numbers and everything that is printed on the CD usually fades,because the quality isn't good.You can also check the inner (silver usually) ring of the CD:Bootleged CDs have a bigger (more often-Lion,Treat,Heavens Edge,Lillian Axe CDs) or smaller (not so often-Lionheart CD) ring than the original CD.The bad thing with this method is that you need to have seen already the original CD and you know its characteristics,so you can make the comparison with the CD that you suspect that is a bootleg.

 

I don't know if the bootlegers have upgrade their methods,because I haven't bought a bootleg since 2007 (when I finally understood what happened).Even in case they can now reproduce a right matrix code,I am quite sure that the low quality of CDs will expose them.Everything on a bootleg CD fades:numbers.letters even the silver backside of the CD.

 

Instructions to ebay users:

1.If you are not sure if the CD you want is original or bootleg,check the seller's feedback.Don't get fooled by his almost perfect feedback rate:most of ebay users don't know what's going on with bootlegs-these CDs are almost like the original as I said and people leave positive feedabck.Check the page where is shown what he has sell recently.A normal seller cannot have 10 copies of Lion's Dangerous Attraction CD (for example-the truth is that this bootleg is very profitable.It is sold at the average price of 25$).

2.If the item you are looking for is very rare,look also at the price:Unusual low price usually (but not always of course) is associated with bootleg,because the serious collectors that are after certain rare titles can understand that a CD is bootleg and they stay away from it (so the price remains low-when I use the word "low" I don't necessary mean a price of 5 or 10 dollars.For example a price of 25 or 30 dollars is low for the Lion's Dangerous Attraction CD,if you think that the original is sold for 50,60 or maybe 70 dollars).

I had seen some Greek bootlegers on ebay:Vilainshadows and Last empire were some of them.However,they usually change IDs.Just keep your eyes open and try to inform any collector you know about these bastards.

 

I hope that the information that I shared with you are enough to help you understand and discriminate between bootleg and original CDs.Please try to keep away from these dickheads,so we can save our love:music and CD collections.I was fooled a few times in the past,and I wasted money to buy these pieces of shit.

Best wishes from a 21 years old music lover and CD collector from Greece.

(Please forgive me for any mistakes.It is too difficult to write and speak using a foreign language.I tried to be as precise as I can).

[glam_junkie]

As talkin about the CASANOVA "Same" CD: The Matrix from the original is 903174215-2 RSA. The catalog number is 9031-74215-2 . See pic below

 

 

 

matrix number is the same as my copy, same maybe it is legit.

 

what to stop them from duplicating this number though?

[shotgun messiah]

As talkin about the CASANOVA "Same" CD: The Matrix from the original is 903174215-2 RSA. The catalog number is 9031-74215-2 . See pic below

 

 

 

matrix number is the same as my copy, same maybe it is legit.

 

what to stop them from duplicating this number though?

 

I think that your CD is original.Please have in mind that bootlegers cannot duplicate these schemes that there are pressed on the ring next to matrix code.

I really don't know why they do not dublicate the excact matrix code.They maybe aren't aware of how matrix code works.Or maybe they don't even own the original CD,so the bootlegs that are created based on the prototype will look like it.It is quite possible that the matrix code is different in every CD (I have seen it in a few japanese pressings),or the strange schemes are also part of the matrix,and they may be different on every CD.It also this have to do with the rights and laws:As I have written the factories that create the bootlegs,when a bootleger orders them, are legitimate and they also make the original CDs for many Greek artists (of course with higher quality elaboration).So they will not create an excatly same CD with the prototype original,because if you don't have the rights,the whole process is supposed to be a crime and against the Greek laws (so bootlegers appear as individuals who want the CDs for personal use and take the responsibility).I can't really answer the question,although I tried many times to explain why they don't dublicate the original matrix.But I don't think that I have to,beacuse this is not necessary:The fact is that for some reason,bootlegers cannot duplicate the original matrix at this time.So the best way to find out if a CD is original or bootleg,is to see its matrix.

[shotgun messiah]

If you are not sure about a CD you want,ask for help.I think that there are many guys here that will help you.I am also willing to provide information for many CDs,mainly japanese pressings which I usually buy.The biggest part of my collection consists of japanese pressings,so I think I can help because I know much about japanese CDs.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

This is not true about the "strange schemes" on japanese pressings. There are japanese boots too...

[shotgun messiah]

This is not true about the "strange schemes" on japanese pressings. There are japanese boots too...

 

Do you know how a japanese bootleg is?I usually buy CDs from the ebay sellers:hinomoto1,japanarehunter,bridesofdestruction,muff8678,decent_music,bandm

aster-gr,ddt77,drgoon_jpn and rock-house-japan.Do you know if they sell bootlegs?

[Alexxtcatz]

So guys if you want to see Casanova s/t bootleg CD, i've taken it from my friend and here is the scans -

[eaglesfan3000]

So guys if you want to see Casanova s/t bootleg CD, i've taken it from my friend and here is the scans -

 

Wheew, I was a bit worried there I had to double check my copy.

[glam_junkie]

So guys if you want to see Casanova s/t bootleg CD, i've taken it from my friend and here is the scans -

 

 

without comparing them side by side, i'm pretty sure the one i have is the boot.

i kinda figured, but i must say it's pretty good quality all round

[HighNDryRulz]

What's everyone's opinion of this Axe - s/t listed on Ebay:

 

Axe s/t

[Nebuchadnezzar]

If it's good or if it's boot?

[Jez]

If it's good or if it's boot?

 

All 4 of the earlier Axe albums 'ST' , 'Living On The Edge', 'Offering' and 'Nemesis' were all reissued on the Axepertise label with bonus tracks (and this one certainly looks like the Axepertise version) and they are definitely boots, although damned good ones at that . The first 2 were also released on the Alpha Brunette label in Japan, but I don't know if they are legit releases or not.

 

 

Wounded Bird re-issued 'Offering' and 'Nemesis' a few years back, so they should be easy to get hold of.

 

Rumours are that Rock Candy are going to do the first 2 Axe discs in the future. so we shall see. The band had a hell of a time getting licensing for all 4, hence why they re-recorded most of the best tracks on the 2 '20 Years From Home' compilations back in the late 90's.

 

Either way, all 4 are killer disc and a must have for any Pomp fan.

[cdjunky41]

What's everyone's opinion of this Axe - s/t listed on Ebay:

 

Axe s/t[/quote

 

Boot!!

[HighNDryRulz]

If it's good or if it's boot?

 

Yep, that was my question....

[rocktrade]

Yes it looks like the Axpertise version that came out around 96/97. It has a clear rear tray and double sided rear inlay. Bonus tracks were from the Babyface LP (pre Axe) and were spread across 'Axe' and 'Living on The Edge'

[shotgun messiah]

So guys if you want to see Casanova s/t bootleg CD, i've taken it from my friend and here is the scans -

 

 

without comparing them side by side, i'm pretty sure the one i have is the boot.

i kinda figured, but i must say it's pretty good quality all round

 

I don't think that the CD you own is bootleg if it is like the picture uploaded by metalhunter...Just think that CDs that are released in USA may have different matrix than these that are released in Europe,so it is usual to exist differences among these.

[melodicrockoz]

I donttthink the first casanova cd has been bootlegged but i feel that their "heroes" cd is, the one that looks like a Japanese pressing.

[rockdoc]

I donttthink the first casanova cd has been bootlegged but i feel that their "heroes" cd is, the one that looks like a Japanese pressing.

I have not went through this whole thread but here are a few booted that I have got ripped in the old ass for or seen :

 

Guardian - First Watch

Edguy - all releases

Sinner - all releases

WASP - all releases

Casanova - all

Roko -all

Domain - all

Boysvoice - Dirty Talks and s/t

Emergency - Boys

Emergency - Martial Law

Fastway - all

Treat - all

Kuni - Looking For Action & Masque Japan With good OBI , hard as hell to spot

Lillian Axe - with I am sure everone knows of these !

Bonfire - Point Blank & Fireworks maybe some others

Fate - Scratch And Sniff

Quade

Julliet

Topaz

 

that is a few that I know of .... I am sure most are listed somewhere on this thread but here they are again ..........

[jstoyz]

Extremely informative thread, many thanks to all who provided helpful info.. I have now determined that I have boots of Joker, Emergency and possibly Javan.....I've become more wary over time thankfully, but this thread has armed me with some concrete guidelines to avoid getting scorched again......

[shotgun messiah]

Extremely informative thread, many thanks to all who provided helpful info.. I have now determined that I have boots of Joker, Emergency and possibly Javan.....I've become more wary over time thankfully, but this thread has armed me with some concrete guidelines to avoid getting scorched again......

 

Unfortunately many collectors had their money stolen buying these pieces of shit.Me too,of course.So it is good to help each other to avoid these crappy CDs in the future.The best way to thank all of us that posted here trying to tell others about bootlegs, is to inform everyone you know about the bootlegs.

[rockdoc]

Extremely informative thread, many thanks to all who provided helpful info.. I have now determined that I have boots of Joker, Emergency and possibly Javan.....I've become more wary over time thankfully, but this thread has armed me with some concrete guidelines to avoid getting scorched again......

 

Unfortunately many collectors had their money stolen buying these pieces of shit.Me too,of course.So it is good to help each other to avoid these crappy CDs in the future.The best way to thank all of us that posted here trying to tell others about bootlegs, is to inform everyone you know about the bootlegs.

Has the MIDNIGHT BLUE - TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN been booted ?? As it looks it is showing up every where . Looks like Russian boot from the sellers selling them...........

[jstoyz]

Extremely informative thread, many thanks to all who provided helpful info.. I have now determined that I have boots of Joker, Emergency and possibly Javan.....I've become more wary over time thankfully, but this thread has armed me with some concrete guidelines to avoid getting scorched again......

 

Unfortunately many collectors had their money stolen buying these pieces of shit.Me too,of course.So it is good to help each other to avoid these crappy CDs in the future.The best way to thank all of us that posted here trying to tell others about bootlegs, is to inform everyone you know about the bootlegs.

Has the MIDNIGHT BLUE - TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN been booted ?? As it looks it is showing up every where . Looks like Russian boot from the sellers selling them...........

 

I have noticed that also, and this time have played it safe and decided to not bid/buy any of those e-bay auctions......Jeff.

[metalhunter]

So guys if you want to see Casanova s/t bootleg CD, i've taken it from my friend and here is the scans -

 

 

without comparing them side by side, i'm pretty sure the one i have is the boot.

i kinda figured, but i must say it's pretty good quality all round

 

I don't think that the CD you own is bootleg if it is like the picture uploaded by metalhunter...Just think that CDs that are released in USA may have different matrix than these that are released in Europe,so it is usual to exist differences among these.

 

talkin once again about the CASANOVA cd, here's a pic from my cd and if you compare it with the pic above you can see that my cd has an ring on the outside (sorry the crappy scan pic show it only in black...) and in this ring you can read the laws and rights of the producer in german, english and france. So I think the cd above is a boot but the matrix is very well done