Jump to content

Bootleg warning


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 50
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Guess you have to be in the loop to see why I'm a little defensive about stuff.

 

But again , I have bigger fish to fry right now so the last thing on my mind is a bunch of B.S. from a few clueless one-dimensional clowns.

 

Ouch...I'm not feeling the love.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But again , I have bigger fish to fry right now so the last thing on my mind is a bunch of B.S. from a few clueless one-dimensional clowns.

 

You always have to go there, don't you? That's probably why so many people think you're a dick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am soooooo stayin' out of these threads from now on... :gone:

 

 

 

The only way I'm getting in one of these threads again is if FAKEPOLICE shows back up.

That way I can try to sell my bottles of Stetson and Olsen Twins movies. ;)

 

That reminds me Wes, did you send my order out yet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am soooooo stayin' out of these threads from now on... :gone:

 

 

 

The only way I'm getting in one of these threads again is if FAKEPOLICE shows back up.

That way I can try to sell my bottles of Stetson and Olsen Twins movies. ;)

 

That reminds me Wes, did you send my order out yet?

 

Yeah Wes, it's almost Christmas buddy. I've got to get those Olsen twins movies wrapped for all my relatives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one on this thread actually ever even mentioned your label Sam, but the names Rock-It, Mosh-Ity-Up, and Vox Humana came up and you got all defensive. I guess it raises a few questions

 

...not only raises a few questions, but in parallel implies a few answers. ;)

 

In reference to some of the recent Greek bootlegs, someone above mentioned it's a losing battle. Bootlegs have always been around. It doesn't only refer to the CDs. In every market, in all times, there will always be those who... can't make it, so, they'll fake it. Can't afford a real Lamborghini Diablo for $250,000? Pick up a replica for about $40,000. Your g/f can't afford to spend $2,000 on a Luis Vuitton purse? Get a knockoff on eBay for about $20. Can't find a real woman? Buy a lovedoll for about ten bucks. Lol. Bottom line is, there will always be demand for a certain "real thing", whatever it may be. However, when that which is in demand exceeds the means of most to aquire it, opportunists will come out of the woodworks, knowing that the demand is there, for a near-identical, but, affordable alternative. The criticism and slack thrown their way is a small price to pay for what is often a fairly lucrative operation. Bootlegs have been around for decades, be it vinyl... cassettes (I still remember the cassettes sold all over Eastern Europe as I was growing up, which were on par with many of the CD bootlegs kickin' around today). CDs have been pirated, and will continue to be, whether it's legendary "labels" like Reborn Classics (who's creators by the way, were taken down by German authorities in the mid 90s, and subsequently jailed on numerous obvious counts of piracy).

 

The truth is, as a few accurately pointed out throughout these posts, is that those who consider themselves collectors, won't much be affected by bootlegging and piracy. It's always been part of the scene. Whether you collect baseball cards, or art. The numbers of those who don't have the means to aquire originals and subsequently provide them to willing buyers, but want to be in on the money, so to speak, will always greatly exceed the number of the few who have the means, contacts, to aquire such originals.

 

In suit, the number of people who wish they could have an original but either cannot afford, or, simply justify paying the costs often associated with an original, will too exceed the number of those who can and do aquire these originals regularly.

 

It's a topic that's been beaten to death for years. All in all, this all seems to be a bit redundant. Almost rhetorical (to save you some time Sam, rhetoric is a reference bombast, almost unnecessary in nature...).

 

We're comparing apples to oranges here. Two extraneous markets. One consists of those who wish to hear only the music, and don't care much for the forum, will be content with a cdr, an mp3, a reissue, a bootleg, or a any format legit or otherwise, as long as it contains the music they're after.

 

The other, consists of people who approach this as an almost sacred hobby. Collectors. To whom, collecting this is almost like a homage to the music and band's they love. No different than collectors of sports memorabilia, or anything else. I for one, am one of these collectors. And to be honest, I couldn't care less how many knockoffs of a certain original I own are out there, for it does very little to devalue my original. If one is to argue the originals drop in value on eBay once a "reissue" appears, that is less a reflection of an actual drop in value to collectors, and more a reflection of a drop in faith of the prospect of said item's legitimacy. In private, behind the scenes, originals continue to retain their value, and often continue to grow in value, only because, as time passess, they become harder and harder to locate.

 

If one is content with a disc on a reissue, or pirate label, so be it. They do what they do to earn that money and it is their right to spend it as they wish. On the same token, there are many who are holding out for a collectible, not just the music. If it was ONLY about the music, this site would be called heavymp3s, as none of us would care about CDs, and would settle merely for MP3s as the most inexpensive way to aquire the music.

 

Greetings to all from Japan,

PJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one on this thread actually ever even mentioned your label Sam, but the names Rock-It, Mosh-Ity-Up, and Vox Humana came up and you got all defensive. I guess it raises a few questions

 

...not only raises a few questions, but in parallel implies a few answers. ;)

 

In reference to some of the recent Greek bootlegs, someone above mentioned it's a losing battle. Bootlegs have always been around. It doesn't only refer to the CDs. In every market, in all times, there will always be those who... can't make it, so, they'll fake it. Can't afford a real Lamborghini Diablo for $250,000? Pick up a replica for about $40,000. Your g/f can't afford to spend $2,000 on a Luis Vuitton purse? Get a knockoff on eBay for about $20. Can't find a real woman? Buy a lovedoll for about ten bucks. Lol. Bottom line is, there will always be demand for a certain "real thing", whatever it may be. However, when that which is in demand exceeds the means of most to aquire it, opportunists will come out of the woodworks, knowing that the demand is there, for a near-identical, but, affordable alternative. The criticism and slack thrown their way is a small price to pay for what is often a fairly lucrative operation. Bootlegs have been around for decades, be it vinyl... cassettes (I still remember the cassettes sold all over Eastern Europe as I was growing up, which were on par with many of the CD bootlegs kickin' around today). CDs have been pirated, and will continue to be, whether it's legendary "labels" like Reborn Classics (who's creators by the way, were taken down by German authorities in the mid 90s, and subsequently jailed on numerous obvious counts of piracy).

 

The truth is, as a few accurately pointed out throughout these posts, is that those who consider themselves collectors, won't much be affected by bootlegging and piracy. It's always been part of the scene. Whether you collect baseball cards, or art. The numbers of those who don't have the means to aquire originals and subsequently provide them to willing buyers, but want to be in on the money, so to speak, will always greatly exceed the number of the few who have the means, contacts, to aquire such originals.

 

In suit, the number of people who wish they could have an original but either cannot afford, or, simply justify paying the costs often associated with an original, will too exceed the number of those who can and do aquire these originals regularly.

 

It's a topic that's been beaten to death for years. All in all, this all seems to be a bit redundant. Almost rhetorical (to save you some time Sam, rhetoric is a reference bombast, almost unnecessary in nature...).

 

We're comparing apples to oranges here. Two extraneous markets. One consists of those who wish to hear only the music, and don't care much for the forum, will be content with a cdr, an mp3, a reissue, a bootleg, or a any format legit or otherwise, as long as it contains the music they're after.

 

The other, consists of people who approach this as an almost sacred hobby. Collectors. To whom, collecting this is almost like a homage to the music and band's they love. No different than collectors of sports memorabilia, or anything else. I for one, am one of these collectors. And to be honest, I couldn't care less how many knockoffs of a certain original I own are out there, for it does very little to devalue my original. If one is to argue the originals drop in value on eBay once a "reissue" appears, that is less a reflection of an actual drop in value to collectors, and more a reflection of a drop in faith of the prospect of said item's legitimacy. In private, behind the scenes, originals continue to retain their value, and often continue to grow in value, only because, as time passess, they become harder and harder to locate.

 

If one is content with a disc on a reissue, or pirate label, so be it. They do what they do to earn that money and it is their right to spend it as they wish. On the same token, there are many who are holding out for a collectible, not just the music. If it was ONLY about the music, this site would be called heavymp3s, as none of us would care about CDs, and would settle merely for MP3s as the most inexpensive way to aquire the music.

 

Greetings to all from Japan,

PJ

 

Well said however if you thought you were buying a Ferrari only to find you bought a cheep copy you'd be pissed off and probably take a walk to the local police station.

 

All you need to know is what you are buying and then make the decision yourself. The legal agencies of the world are there to police these things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Bottom line is, there will always be demand for a certain "real thing", whatever it may be. However, when that which is in demand exceeds the means of most to aquire it, opportunists will come out of the woodworks, knowing that the demand is there, for a near-identical, but, affordable alternative. The criticism and slack thrown their way is a small price to pay for what is often a fairly lucrative operation. Bootlegs have been around for decades, be it vinyl... cassettes (I still remember the cassettes sold all over Eastern Europe as I was growing up, which were on par with many of the CD bootlegs kickin' around today). CDs have been pirated, and will continue to be, whether it's legendary "labels" like Reborn Classics (who's creators by the way, were taken down by German authorities in the mid 90s, and subsequently jailed on numerous obvious counts of piracy).

 

The truth is, as a few accurately pointed out throughout these posts, is that those who consider themselves collectors, won't much be affected by bootlegging and piracy. It's always been part of the scene. Whether you collect baseball cards, or art. The numbers of those who don't have the means to aquire originals and subsequently provide them to willing buyers, but want to be in on the money, so to speak, will always greatly exceed the number of the few who have the means, contacts, to aquire such originals.

 

In suit, the number of people who wish they could have an original but either cannot afford, or, simply justify paying the costs often associated with an original, will too exceed the number of those who can and do aquire these originals regularly.

 

It's a topic that's been beaten to death for years. All in all, this all seems to be a bit redundant. Almost rhetorical (to save you some time Sam, rhetoric is a reference bombast, almost unnecessary in nature...).

 

We're comparing apples to oranges here. Two extraneous markets. One consists of those who wish to hear only the music, and don't care much for the forum, will be content with a cdr, an mp3, a reissue, a bootleg, or a any format legit or otherwise, as long as it contains the music they're after.

 

The other, consists of people who approach this as an almost sacred hobby. Collectors. To whom, collecting this is almost like a homage to the music and band's they love. No different than collectors of sports memorabilia, or anything else. I for one, am one of these collectors. And to be honest, I couldn't care less how many knockoffs of a certain original I own are out there, for it does very little to devalue my original. If one is to argue the originals drop in value on eBay once a "reissue" appears, that is less a reflection of an actual drop in value to collectors, and more a reflection of a drop in faith of the prospect of said item's legitimacy. In private, behind the scenes, originals continue to retain their value, and often continue to grow in value, only because, as time passess, they become harder and harder to locate.

 

If one is content with a disc on a reissue, or pirate label, so be it. They do what they do to earn that money and it is their right to spend it as they wish. On the same token, there are many who are holding out for a collectible, not just the music. If it was ONLY about the music, this site would be called heavymp3s, as none of us would care about CDs, and would settle merely for MP3s as the most inexpensive way to aquire the music."

 

 

 

This portion of your post is probably the most insightful and correct reflection on this situation that I have ever seen or heard from you, PJ. And, it is something that I have...in private...and on these boards illustrated time and time again throughout my own discourse concerning these issues. I even made the same 'art' analogy with collecting...and originals, etc.

 

In short, I agree 100%.............and it would behoove those who get so worked up about it to take a deep breath and exhale.....and realise that every side to this coin has been exposed and that most anything from here on out is pure redundancy.....

 

Rawk on in Japan!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good post PJ even though you couldn't help but mention my name in it. Glad I'm so popular.....that was the plan from day one.

 

I will say this....

 

Retrospect FOCUSES on re-issuing albums that have never seen the light of day on cd format before and regardless to what anyone thinks of the quality of this or that release , the point is that it's available and those are the collectors I am after. Not some 2-bit bragging looney tunes who will pay $800 for a cd (insane IMO) , but the people who actually listen to cd's for the RIGHT reasons.....the MUSIC.

 

I have stood by the phrase "Don't like it? Don't buy it" , for many moons now and I still stand by that.

 

Retrospect Records is for the bands and for the fans and there's a reason so many bands are now contacting Retrospect for a deal. But blah blah blah. I'm not trying to go off on a rant but yeh PJ's post actually made sense for a change- just leave me out of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not some 2-bit bragging looney tunes who will pay $800 for a cd (insane IMO) , but the people who actually listen to cd's for the RIGHT reasons.....the MUSIC.

 

I really don't understand why you have to keep making these types of comments. I understand that your business doesn't exactly cater to "collectors", but do you have to keep insulting them at every turn? Of course $800.00 is an insane amount of cash to spend on a cd, but it's all relevent...& I haven't read one post here where anybody is bragging about what they have in their collection. Granted, when someone scores a rare cd, they may share their excitement here, but more often than not the poster is congratulated by the other members here, not reprimanded for "bragging". I thought we were all one, big happy family? :blink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not some 2-bit bragging looney tunes who will pay $800 for a cd (insane IMO) , but the people who actually listen to cd's for the RIGHT reasons.....the MUSIC.

 

I really don't understand why you have to keep making these types of comments. I understand that your business doesn't exactly cater to "collectors", but do you have to keep insulting them at every turn? Of course $800.00 is an insane amount of cash to spend on a cd, but it's all relevent...& I haven't read one post here where anybody is bragging about what they have in their collection. Granted, when someone scores a rare cd, they may share their excitement here, but more often than not the poster is congratulated by the other members here, not reprimanded for "bragging". I thought we were all one, big happy family? :blink:

 

Most of us are chocularok. Most of us our...Like Mom always said one bad apple...

 

And its only looney if you pay $800 for a cd from any one besides Sam. Then its ok. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Well theres plenty of other people that have label control out there that like playing up the market, I won't say any names but theres a certain cd out there that's been going for as high as $500 on ebay, well obviously people are going to start bootleging it, and instead of realising that and doing something about it, the person who ownes the rights to this cd start busting balls and prosecuting, now this is an album that came out at the very first of the cd era, and there were never really that many printed to begin with, now if I were in this band and their was that high of a demand for my cd that people start pressing bootlegs, and I was just unlucky enough to have the rights to my music owned by a neurotic, grandstander, who is also very uninvolved and greedy at the same time, I would be very unhappy, and instead of prosecuting these bootlegers, this person needs to think about maybe doing something about it, well now they are, but this person doesnt care about this cd, they don't re-master it, ad additional songs, etc. they serial number it, and get them out there so THEY!!! don't lose any money from these bootlegs, im not a bootleger nor am I a rep. just a collector who's made a very substantial finding, and it's to bad I can't say any names, but im sure you have a pretty good idea. I think Sams doing a great service, I don't know him or anything about his label, but it seems to me, he actually cares about what he's releasing, some of these bands on his label would never see the light of day from any other labels, and it's shit that I know I listened to along time ago, so I don't get why everybody on here is bagging on Sam, unless you all know something I don't??? but like a said im not in the loop like a lot of you, so I may be way off course here, but I don't think so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leykis - great post. What you have to understand is some people at this forum just "don't get it" and will never get it unless they get to know me or are willing to have an open conversation with me. The people who have took time out of their life for a few minutes and actually spoke with me frankly about Retrospect Records , well they know the deal and they understand what I'm about.

 

There will always be numbnuts who are either too jealous or too dumb to open their eyes.....and that extends to all reaches of life. There were so many people who could do nothing but bag on Retrospect Records since day one of my ownership , saying it would last a matter of months. Well not only have some of those people done a 180 and actually support what I'm about now , but now some of those people are actually helping the cause.

 

All I can say is THANKS to the detractors and unbelievers. You look more like an :butt: now than you did 18 months ago.

 

I told you it wouldn't be long before I started adding some big names to the roster , and I have just landed 2 biggies. These bands are sick of the labels you guys love to idolize (Frontiers , MTM , Metal Mayhem) because they have been shafted one too many times. But you don't care about that. You could care less how much they got ripped off by your favorite labels , as long as you get what you want.

 

2007 is the year for Retrospect Records. Either jump on board and take this ride with me , or be another San Diego Chargers spectator on the sidelines.

 

:christmas:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
Action is already be taken on the Hurricane cd's.......Any that show up on Ebay will soon be shut down.......We already know the source behind these cheap imitations and legal action is pending......Jay actually got wind of this before any of the rest of us did......So all we ask is for people to be patient and not buy these as the real thing will be out very very soon......

 

Take care

Lon

 

Sheesh. What a load of crap THIS post has turned out to be!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Action is already be taken on the Hurricane cd's.......Any that show up on Ebay will soon be shut down.......We already know the source behind these cheap imitations and legal action is pending......Jay actually got wind of this before any of the rest of us did......So all we ask is for people to be patient and not buy these as the real thing will be out very very soon......

 

Take care

Lon

 

Sheesh. What a load of crap THIS post has turned out to be!

 

How Ironic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are online-stores really still selling these cd:s?

 

Do you have any names of stores. It would be nice to see how the Vanadium albums look and souns like.

 

Take care

Ali

 

I asked this question a little further back in this thread.

 

If anyone can list the names of known bootleg sellers, I would appreciate it as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point, Stormy, so please let me rephrase....

 

 

If anyone can list the names of any known (or suspected?) Greek bootleg sellers, I would appreciate it as well.

 

Is basically anything being sold from Greece today a boot?

 

Should we just name sellers and/or CDs on ebay and ask everyone's opinion?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, here are two from me:

 

1. Sonic Age online store carry quite a lot Greek bootlegs - they call them "later editions"

2. Forgotten Steel seller on GEMM

 

I have seen some eBay sellers to carry this stuff, but I dont remember names on top on my head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Are online-stores really still selling these cd:s?

 

Do you have any names of stores. It would be nice to see how the Vanadium albums look and souns like.

 

Take care

Ali

 

I asked this question a little further back in this thread.

 

If anyone can list the names of known bootleg sellers, I would appreciate it as well." ....

 

one seller write this in item descriptions:

 

"SAVAGE GRACE-AFTER THE FALL FROM GRACE CD

IT IS NOT A CD-R. IT IS A FACTORY PRESSING BUT I AM NOT SURE IT IS THE FIRST PRESS [EDITION] "

 

POWERMAD-APSOLUTE POWER CD

IT IS NOT A CD-R. IT IS A FACTORY PRESSING BUT I AM NOT SURE IT IS THE FIRST PRESS [EDITION]"

ETC.....

 

 

 

:angel:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.