Jump to content
cherokee

MIKE BUTT (impossible rock seller Ebay)- a cheat

Recommended Posts

"Michael Butt from Utah and I agreed on a CD trade in March. I've sent him 5 CDs to the US and he agreed to send 3 rare and very expensive CDs to me in Hungary. I've requested that he send my package via Express Mail with tracking - but instead he used regular First Class Mail. Mike received my CDs after 5 days but I haven't received his package to this day. Tracking shows that it was delivered on the 12th of March somewhere in Germany. Tracking also says "from US to Germany" - there's nothing indicating Hungary. Mike showed me two different customs/tracking numbers which is impossible cause there's only one package - not 2. One was for Express Mail which says "Label created, not yet in system" so it was never used and the other one is a regular First Class International customs number (the parcel that was delivered in Germany in mid-March). Mike refuses to give my CDs back and claims it's the post office's fault. Noone knows where the supposed package currently is - post is investigating but can't locate it. If he'd actually mailed it with EMS like I requested we wouldn't have this problem now. My suspicion is: he gave me a tracking number from a different CD he mailed to Germany on that day and never actually mailed my package. The pictures of the receipts could be manipulated with the tracking number cut and glued onto a random customs form with my name and address on it. Of course I don't have proof for this, but it's the only possible solution at this point. Mike now completely refuses any help since I've talked to another collector who tried to help me solve this issue with him. I'd like to WARN every serious collector to not trade with Mike Butt under any circumstances, because as far as I know this is not the first time that a problem like this occured with one of his trades going bad."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike is a member here, so hopefully he will respond. I will send him an email about this post.

Tracking showing delivery in Germany doesn't look good.

Regarding "Mike refuses to give my CDs back and claims it's the post office's fault", that's not the way it goes, in my opinion. You don't just shrug and say "Oh well, it's the post office's fault, sucks to be you."

In my opinion, each party should be insuring their side of the trade for market value in the event of damage or loss. If you don't want to have to ship Priority Mail to get USPS insurance, there are several third-party insurers that will cover international parcels sent via 1st class mail. I use them all the time.

-Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, heavyharmonies said:

Mike is a member here, so hopefully he will respond. I will send him an email about this post.

Tracking showing delivery in Germany doesn't look good.

Regarding "Mike refuses to give my CDs back and claims it's the post office's fault", that's not the way it goes, in my opinion. You don't just shrug and say "Oh well, it's the post office's fault, sucks to be you."

In my opinion, each party should be insuring their side of the trade for market value in the event of damage or loss. If you don't want to have to ship Priority Mail to get USPS insurance, there are several third-party insurers that will cover international parcels sent via 1st class mail. I use them all the time.

-Dan

In recent years, he has been cheated more people (from Italian person and Switzerland person) because he showed false tracking numbers and actually sent packets to an unknown address.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will respond to this once and then I will be done with it...you guys can come to your own conclusions and believe who you want...

Peter "claims" he never got the packages...I have no idea if that is true or not...the tracking does show it ended somewhere in Germany...I have no idea why it ends there but most of my packages going to Hungary and Germany show tracking up to Germany/Frankfurt then zippo....I sent this express...I sent him the tracking info using the express tracking and the customs label tracking.....but only the customs label shows up...I have no idea why thats the case but it is....

I was willing to help Peter with this up until he started slandering me to friends that started messaging me...he made something bad out of this that is simply a lost package.....so be it....he gets no help from me from this point forward....I care not what anyone else thinks of that....I will not help peter out in any way....

I will not send him one thing in return Dan....after what he has said to me and about me he is on his own....he burnt that bridge with everything he has said about me in the last 24 hrs....I don't care to deal with him again..I will not attempt to help him...I do not care anymore if he got them or not....he should have kept things civil and seen this for what it is...a lost package....instead he turned into a psycho that most people in the business knows him to be.....and i will make sure everyone I know and have sold to in the last 15 years knows it....then I will move on....I don't waste time on these forums defending myself past the one response....

again...this is a lost package....I have had a few lost packages over the years......never was seen as something like this....crazy for me is now known as PETER SOOS.....deal with him in anyway....at your own risk.....the day anyone here deals with him and it goes sour...remember who told you so...

 

thats it from me....

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In fairness Peter, this is at least the second time you've been in a major dispute with someone here:

Trouble seems to follow you for some reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

In fairness Peter, this is at least the second time you've been in a major dispute with someone here:

Trouble seems to follow you for some reason.

Outside of me, who I know, Mike Butt did the same thing with two people during 1 years!  Here are the evidence:

Attached a image from Mike message ,what he sent me message,before shipped me package,which is never arrived me! I asked him EMS service,and he sent package with first class mail service!  it appears in the picture that he told me a tracking number of EMS!He never used EMS cover letter!! Label Created, not yet in system

EL511601279US

 
 
 

EMS-Mike said.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GERMAN post office confirmed by phone and email that my package (LH033954699US-tracking number) was delivered to Germany on 12TH of March,instead Hungary! Mike Butt never replied to why he did not used the EMS service,as promised me,simply scammed me!  The other two people told me after they got to know my story that Mike Butt did the same with them!! He sent to a other city their packages. 

Mike told me a other tracking number: LH033954699US  (first class mail service) ,and not EMS,which is we agreed!  

Here are the evidence:

https://t.17track.net/en#nums=LH033954699US

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure how that is proof.

The way I read it is that it went through a transfer airport

ie: on it's way to it's destination (you)

If I send something to San Fransisco, I dare say it will go through LAX first...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CureTheSane said:

Not sure how that is proof.

The way I read it is that it went through a transfer airport

ie: on it's way to it's destination (you)

If I send something to San Fransisco, I dare say it will go through LAX first...

If you are using an English-German translation program, this means in English that the package was delivered on March 12, 2018 in Germany!  Will there be enough evidence?

package delivered in Germany.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not taking sides or anything, I'm just curious about a small detail: if the EMS label was purchased online, as it seems to be the case from the tracking info, where does the second "customs label tracking #" comes from? Unless I'm utterly mistaken, when purchasing EMS labels online they do not have such number? It is only available if you go "oldschool" and use fill-in paper labels from the post office.

Just wondering you know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, stormspell said:

Not taking sides or anything, I'm just curious about a small detail: if the EMS label was purchased online, as it seems to be the case from the tracking info, where does the second "customs label tracking #" comes from? Unless I'm utterly mistaken, when purchasing EMS labels online they do not have such number? It is only available if you go "oldschool" and use fill-in paper labels from the post office.

Just wondering you know.

Whether he bought them online or post office, I do not know.

All I can say about this is that I received a photo of him on the day before (4th of March -Sunday) the post was sent, there was a large leaf cover, and a letter of EMS accompanying him, and a customs declaration, both of which were filled. The EMS letter was never used, but the customs declaration was accompanied by this tracking number: LH033954699US   (this is ''FIRST CLASS MAIL'' service),and it was delivered 12th of March in Germany,instead Hungary!  The thing to do is to find out afterwards that Mike has done the same thing with more people, and it's so strange that the packets are delivered to other cities and unknown places in other countries, and every time MIKE BUTT sends the packets. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, stormspell said:

where does the second "customs label tracking #" come from?

that's the big question and why it ended up in Germany.

I bought a few times from him on ebay without problems but last year something similar happened with a trade between me and Mike. He received my CD within 7 days but tracking for the package I was supposed to receive showed it was delivered somewhere on the other side of my country at an unknown mystery location. He said he misplaced all the paperwork so he couldn't open a search at the post office. Needless to say I never got the CD I originally wanted, at least he offered to send a different CD as a replacement which I received immediately but of course it wasn't the specific one that was originally agreed upon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2018. 04. 10. at 12:17 AM, MButt said:

I will respond to this once and then I will be done with it...you guys can come to your own conclusions and believe who you want...

Peter "claims" he never got the packages...I have no idea if that is true or not...the tracking does show it ended somewhere in Germany...I have no idea why it ends there but most of my packages going to Hungary and Germany show tracking up to Germany/Frankfurt then zippo....I sent this express...I sent him the tracking info using the express tracking and the customs label tracking.....but only the customs label shows up...I have no idea why thats the case but it is....

I was willing to help Peter with this up until he started slandering me to friends that started messaging me...he made something bad out of this that is simply a lost package.....so be it....he gets no help from me from this point forward....I care not what anyone else thinks of that....I will not help peter out in any way....

I will not send him one thing in return Dan....after what he has said to me and about me he is on his own....he burnt that bridge with everything he has said about me in the last 24 hrs....I don't care to deal with him again..I will not attempt to help him...I do not care anymore if he got them or not....he should have kept things civil and seen this for what it is...a lost package....instead he turned into a psycho that most people in the business knows him to be.....and i will make sure everyone I know and have sold to in the last 15 years knows it....then I will move on....I don't waste time on these forums defending myself past the one response....

again...this is a lost package....I have had a few lost packages over the years......never was seen as something like this....crazy for me is now known as PETER SOOS.....deal with him in anyway....at your own risk.....the day anyone here deals with him and it goes sour...remember who told you so...

 

thats it from me....

 

 

 

It was later revealed that on 5th of March you did something in the post office that could call packet ,and delivered on March 12 in Germany. This is a short time of 7 days, and here the post office is not a mistake, but a packet is forwarded to it where the sender addresses it. It was a consciously pre-planned fraud!!  Here, I'm not the psycho, but every normal person would react if, during a deal, Mike gets more than $ 1,500 total worth of CDs (5 cds), and he scammed me with a consciously pre-planned,and not sending anything in return . 

The case of Bruno Pignatario (Italian person) has come to light, but unfortunately only afterwards!  His story is similar. He traded with Mike Butt last year and he paid him $ 700 for 2 cd's, and Mike sent him package to Italy, but in an unknown place, not where he had Bruno's address. Mike never refunded money to Bruno!   These things are not accidental!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about anyone else, but there's no way in hell I'm sending $1,500 worth of CDs ANYWHERE without being 1000% positive I'm dealing with someone trustworthy.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, cherokee said:

The case of Bruno Pignatario (Italian person) has come to light, but unfortunately only afterwards!  His story is similar. He traded with Mike Butt last year and he paid him $ 700 for 2 cd's, and Mike sent him package to Italy, but in an unknown place, not where he had Bruno's address. Mike never refunded money to Bruno!   These things are not accidental!!!

it's a loophole to get fake tracking numbers

here's a similar old ebay scam on how it works:

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/About-Protections/Scammed-on-eBay-Another-fake-tracking-number-used-to-scam-me/td-p/1109334

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, AlphaMale said:

I don't know about anyone else, but there's no way in hell I'm sending $1,500 worth of CDs ANYWHERE without being 1000% positive I'm dealing with someone trustworthy.

 

It would probably cost me $1,500 in shipping to send $1,500 worth of CD's anywhere.In laymans terms-it would be a shitload of CD's that I would have to mail out .

But I would want the money in my paypal account before I mailed out anything !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, nyoilers said:

It would probably cost me $1,500 in shipping to send $1,500 worth of CD's anywhere.In laymans terms-it would be a shitload of CD's that I would have to mail out .

But I would want the money in my paypal account before I mailed out anything !

This was a trading agreement that we both agreed to use the EMS service. I kept myself in agreement and sent him the 5 cds with EMS service and he got it in 5 days! But he only showed me a prepared EMS cover letter with tracking number, but he never used it, and I did not get the 3 cds in which we agreed. I have attached a pictured about our conversation. Money moves were not through Paypal, but we are talking about the theoretical value of 5 cd's!

Here is the evidence:  Mike's wrote me this EMS tracking number firstly: EL511601279US

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?tLabels=EL511601279US

Label Created, not yet in system

MIKE REPLY.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so he used paper labels. That explains the custom slip #. 

I'm still puzzled why the EMS tracking says "Label created, not yet in system" because to my experience and by simple logic this could only happen when the label is purchased and generated online...

Anyway, good luck with solving this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, stormspell said:

I'm still puzzled why the EMS tracking says "Label created, not yet in system" because to my experience and by simple logic this could only happen when the label is purchased and generated online...

In my experience, that message means a label was generated, but the parcel has not been received (scanned in) at any USPS.

The problem is that just creating or paying for a label means nothing, as it can be voided and refunded immediately, and I don't believe that the voiding is then reflected in the tracking. I'm pretty sure that once a tracking number is created it remains in the system in that never scanned in pending state, even if the original postal transaction is voided.

This has long been a problem on eBay, but eBay was smart enough to require proof of delivery rather than just proof of shipping. Scammers will pay for a label, immediately get it refunded, and then put that generated tracking number into eBay as supposed proof of shipping... but no parcel was actually sent anywhere.

There are legitimate reasons to void a label after the fact (problem with address, wrong weight or delivery method type, fustercluck with the USPS clerks once you take the parcel there), but that number isn't proof positive of anything being shipped.

Label generation means nothing. It's an "acceptance scan" that shows that the parcel is now in possession of USPS and is no longer with the shipper/seller.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100% correct Dan.

And sounds like what happened to Adriano when Lonnie ripped off everybody.

Fake Waybill. Signed but unstamped.

One big fraud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, heavyharmonies said:

In my experience, that message means a label was generated, but the parcel has not been received (scanned in) at any USPS.

The problem is that just creating or paying for a label means nothing, as it can be voided and refunded immediately, and I don't believe that the voiding is then reflected in the tracking. I'm pretty sure that once a tracking number is created it remains in the system in that never scanned in pending state, even if the original postal transaction is voided.

This has long been a problem on eBay, but eBay was smart enough to require proof of delivery rather than just proof of shipping. Scammers will pay for a label, immediately get it refunded, and then put that generated tracking number into eBay as supposed proof of shipping... but no parcel was actually sent anywhere.

There are legitimate reasons to void a label after the fact (problem with address, wrong weight or delivery method type, fustercluck with the USPS clerks once you take the parcel there), but that number isn't proof positive of anything being shipped.

Label generation means nothing. It's an "acceptance scan" that shows that the parcel is now in possession of USPS and is no longer with the shipper/seller.

Exactly. I pointed the discrepancy because the recipient was given a picture of a paper label, but the tracking # is clearly from an online-generated label that was never submitted to the system... so there's definitely more to the story here. Mbutt needs to explain himself better before playing the victim.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a bit of trivia on this......a few years back, I sent a couple of expensive CDs to a good customer in Italy using EMS.   He never got his package and then contacted me to tell me the tracking number indicates his package was sent to PERU!!!    I checked online and, yes, instead of Italy, the package ended up in Peru.   Well, needless to say, my good customer was in total panic and wanted his money returned.   I assured him, the package would eventially get to him, that he had to be patient.   Patience wasn't one of his virtues...., but he did restrain himself from filing a paypal grievance and.......yes, about 1 month or more later, his package did arrive.   Once again, I am glad I mailed that out EMS with tracking.   They were well travelled CDs to say the least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where transactions involving big money rarities are concerned, each party should be covering their asses at both ends insuring the contents for what they are worth should they be lost and safely shipping with tracking that proves they have been delivered to the proper party. That should have been worked out before finalizing the deal.

This 5 for 3 deal is obviously worth a significant amount of money for both players involved so I can see how panic might cloud someone's judgement if they felt they were in jeopardy of losing out one way or another. Do I want someone smearing me every chance they get? Hell no. But that doesn't give anyone the green light to cut off all correspondence with the dude.

My two cents: Cut the guy some slack. He's worried about being screwed out of major coin here. You got the discs he promised you. Take every step you have to, to make sure your part of the deal is lived up to.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah the above comment is pretty reasonable.

Making one quick statement and then refusing further discussion (particularly here, where you see to have been treated fairly) smacks of someone who has something to hide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/15/2018 at 3:09 AM, CureTheSane said:

Yeah the above comment is pretty reasonable.

Making one quick statement and then refusing further discussion (particularly here, where you see to have been treated fairly) smacks of someone who has something to hide.

You see the situation very well. It can be said that mail was a mistake, but this is not the case. It was a deliberately organized scam. It was a man I trusted because I had a deal with him and there was no problem until now. Returning to Delbert's story, there may be things that accidentally send the package to another country, but in your case there was not delivered but was forwarded to the destination country. Mike Butt had done this to some people that he did not send the package where he should have been, and it's not a coincidence that MIKE BUTT is the sender every time. My package was delivered to Germany within 7 days,instead Hungary, indicating that the packet was not lost but was consciously addressed and the customs declaration was not real what he showed me. This is thoughtful for everyone because it knows how many people have already played this, but I just got later the news and told me their own story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×