Hurricane Bootleg Warning

[chocularok]

Well, I've now been burned twice on one of these. The past 2 auctions I've won have both turned out to be bootlegs. I even forwarded the first copy to another member of the board (who I'm not going to name...he can weigh in if he's so inclined) & he assured me that my suspicions were correct. Both copies were exactly the same...both the inserts and cd had the "fresh ink" smell to them...all the colors were way too bright, especially skin tones. They appeared almost orange. And both the discs said "MADE BY DISCOVERY SYSTEMS - AN AMERICAN COMPANY 0D40100" around the innner ring.

 

Now the interesting part...here's the email I got back from the seller:

 

"hi,

 

I will refund your money once the cd has been received. I purchased this cd through VEGASCDS about a year ago. I am sorry that you think that it is a bootleg, I have purchased many items from him and they are all legit.

 

Larry"

 

Now, I even voiced my concerns about Vegas selling muliple copies of this cd last year and this was Sam's response

 

http://heavyharmonies.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ndpost&p=203116

 

Now either Larry (the guy who sold me the bootleg) or Sam is lying....

 

Oh yeah...the seller who's trying to pass off the "original" Hurricane cd is "larrylove97"...

[& then]

the calm before the storm?......anyway, did the seller state it was an "original" and/or on the Enigma label & w/ the correct catalog #? If that's in their description I would think it is the seller's problemo, especially if it wasn't on said label. Saying that they bought it from another person/seller isn't your fault/problem. Good luck!

[chocularok]

Here's the link to the auction I won...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...43225&rd=1&rd=1

[stormspell]

I know Atrophy was Greek boot, so if the Hurricane is a silverback it probably is a Greek bootie too.

 

Usually the Greek booties does not have anything on the inner rim, except for the album title, so it is kinda strange to have factory imprint. Greek also never have IFPI number for sure - does your Hurricane has one?

[& then]

Here's the link to the auction I won...

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...43225&rd=1&rd=1

 

Interestingly....the photo looks like the "original" but, and as bad as this may sound, possibly either a misinformed seller (which is kinda hard ro believe) or a photo of the legit Enigma label, but what you received wasn't? Hmm....not good!

[Retrospect Records]

All Hurricane cd's I had were legit. And the original Hurricane cd's DO have "made by Discovery systems" on the inner ring. Please do your homework.

[chocularok]

All Hurricane cd's I had were legit. And the original Hurricane cd's DO have "made by Discovery systems" on the inner ring. Please do your homework.

 

Well, this one that passed through your hands IS a boot...no doubt about it...it's been confirmed by more than one person. Did all the others you sold have that "fresh from the factory" smell, cause this one sure did. And I never said that the real ones didn't say "made by Discovery systems", did I? It would be easy enough to duplicate that from the original as well, wouldn't it...that was my point.

[Mullethead]

All Hurricane cd's I had were legit. And the original Hurricane cd's DO have "made by Discovery systems" on the inner ring. Please do your homework.

 

Well, this one that passed through your hands IS a boot...no doubt about it...it's been confirmed by more than one person. Did all the others you sold have that "fresh from the factory" smell, cause this one sure did. And I never said that the real ones didn't say "made by Discovery systems", did I? It would be easy enough to duplicate that from the original as well, wouldn't it...that was my point.

 

 

 

I don't remember exactly where the first won Matt got came from but he shipped it to me and I knew it was a boot as soon as I saw it. If this one is the same, it's a boot. I wish people would cut this shit out. I can see why you are getting frustrated Matt...

 

Jarred

[Retrospect Records]

I always announce my cd's as re-issues if that is what they are.

[Guest THOMMY]

I always announce my cd's as re-issues if that is what they are.

 

 

Maybe you announce your Retrospect stuff as re-issues,but there is still plenty of Bootleg stuff you sell

in your EBAY auctions-recently you frauded a friend with a Workforce copy (which can be recognized as boot thru the wrong print year 1969 (!) on the Label print-you argued that it was the release date-how stupid???)

I also know of a Portugal guy who bought stuff from you-then recognized them as boots and resold them on EBAY again-so that stuff spreads worldwide.

The Hurricane CD chokularoc got is definitely a new boot-spreading over Europe for months and due to various connections should have now reached overseas - I would say the risk of getting an Original copy at that time is

at 99%.

[Retrospect Records]

Buy for the music - not for re-selling or labels and you won't have any problems will you? It's a simple solution.

 

Can of worms......

 

 

Oh and I NEVER said the WorkForce cd was released in 1969 - I said one of the songs was written in 1969 (and is true) but it's pretty typical for someone to misinterpret what I say.

 

Don't like , Don't buy.

[chocularok]

Buy for the music - not for re-selling or labels and you won't have any problems will you? It's a simple solution.

 

Can of worms......

 

 

Oh and I NEVER said the WorkForce cd was released in 1969 - I said one of the songs was written in 1969 (and is true) but it's pretty typical for someone to misinterpret what I say.

 

Don't like , Don't buy.

 

Sam, that's such a horse-shit cop out it's hillarious. If people were up front & honest about exactly what they were selling in the first place, these problems wouldn't exist, would they? Believe it or not, there are some people out there who want the genuine article...not some piece of shit knock off that's being passed off as the real thing.

[heavyharmonies]

Sam, that's such a horse-shit cop out it's hillarious. If people were up front & honest about exactly what they were selling in the first place, these problems wouldn't exist, would they? Believe it or not, there are some people out there who want the genuine article...not some piece of shit knock off that's being passed off as the real thing.

 

I agree. My problem with bootlegs has been less about the nature of them than sellers not revealing what they are selling and the expectations of the buyer. I shouldn't have to PM a seller and ask if a disc is a bootleg, especially if you consider that most sellers will either (1) lie to you or (2) be hostile about the question.

 

It's to the point where you have to assume that any rare disc is a bootleg until proven otherwise, instead of the other way around.

 

Of course sellers will never candidly admit or reveal their merchandise as being bootlegs voluntarily. That would be like a burglar ringing the doorbell first: it sure as hell isn't in their best interest...

 

Sam's response is one you would expect: he deflects the question back into your lap, making it your fault or problem as the buyer, rather than his responsibility as a seller. Nothing new.

 

The never-ending supply of Wraith soundtracks he sells are another prime example.

 

Oh well, this is an age-old argument that we'll never see a resolution to...

 

-Dan

[eaglesfan3000]

God damn, another Hurricane tibacle. I purchased a copy of Take What You Want from Sam last December...I'll have to check it out when I get home. I swear to Christ if it's a boot...heads will fucking roll...if I find out I spent $80 on a fuckin' boot I will flip, I'm going to want to know where Sam got these copies from. Let's just say the authorities will be involved ASAP!!!!

 

I'm sure it isn't, Sam seems pretty knowledgeable about this stuff. I will check just to be sure.

[rob62972]

God damn, another Hurricane tibacle. I purchased a copy of Take What You Want from Sam last December...I'll have to check it out when I get home. I swear to Christ if it's a boot...heads will fucking roll...if I find out I spent $80 on a fuckin' boot I will flip, I'm going to want to know where Sam got these copies from. Let's just say the authorities will be involved ASAP!!!!

 

I'm sure it isn't, Sam seems pretty knowledgeable about this stuff. I will check just to be sure.

The plot thickens!

[eaglesfan3000]

God damn, another Hurricane tibacle. I purchased a copy of Take What You Want from Sam last December...I'll have to check it out when I get home. I swear to Christ if it's a boot...heads will fucking roll...if I find out I spent $80 on a fuckin' boot I will flip, I'm going to want to know where Sam got these copies from. Let's just say the authorities will be involved ASAP!!!!

 

I'm sure it isn't, Sam seems pretty knowledgeable about this stuff. I will check just to be sure.

 

I just checked my copy and it says Discovery on the inside of mine...so I think I'm good.

[chocularok]

God damn, another Hurricane tibacle. I purchased a copy of Take What You Want from Sam last December...I'll have to check it out when I get home. I swear to Christ if it's a boot...heads will fucking roll...if I find out I spent $80 on a fuckin' boot I will flip, I'm going to want to know where Sam got these copies from. Let's just say the authorities will be involved ASAP!!!!

 

I'm sure it isn't, Sam seems pretty knowledgeable about this stuff. I will check just to be sure.

 

I just checked my copy and it says Discovery on the inside of mine...so I think I'm good.

 

Unfortunately, that isn't the litmus test for this cd...both my boots had that on it as well...

[eaglesfan3000]

God damn, another Hurricane tibacle. I purchased a copy of Take What You Want from Sam last December...I'll have to check it out when I get home. I swear to Christ if it's a boot...heads will fucking roll...if I find out I spent $80 on a fuckin' boot I will flip, I'm going to want to know where Sam got these copies from. Let's just say the authorities will be involved ASAP!!!!

 

I'm sure it isn't, Sam seems pretty knowledgeable about this stuff. I will check just to be sure.

 

I just checked my copy and it says Discovery on the inside of mine...so I think I'm good.

 

Unfortunately, that isn't the litmus test for this cd...both my boots had that on it as well...

 

Fuck!!! Is there an expert on the board who can take a look at some pics of mine?

 

Thanks

[whiplash1972]

God damn, another Hurricane tibacle. I purchased a copy of Take What You Want from Sam last December...I'll have to check it out when I get home. I swear to Christ if it's a boot...heads will fucking roll...if I find out I spent $80 on a fuckin' boot I will flip, I'm going to want to know where Sam got these copies from. Let's just say the authorities will be involved ASAP!!!!

 

I'm sure it isn't, Sam seems pretty knowledgeable about this stuff. I will check just to be sure.

 

I just checked my copy and it says Discovery on the inside of mine...so I think I'm good.

 

Unfortunately, that isn't the litmus test for this cd...both my boots had that on it as well...

 

 

Matt / Jarred,

 

What particular things should we all be looking for as far as identifying these Hurricane boots? Is there any noticable difference in the CD itself between an original & the boot, or is it strictly down to inferior artwork?

 

Mike

[eaglesfan3000]

Sam wouldn't knowingly sell a boot would he? If so what should a boot sell for? I want to give him the benefit of the doubt before making accusing anyone of selling a boot. The last thing I want to do is make enemies.

[chocularok]

The 2 red flags on my copies were the over-powering "new" smell & the colors of the band pics on both the back insert & backside of the front insert. On both my copies, the colors were too dark...the skin tone of the guy on the far left was almost orange, fer chrissakes. I guess for me it boiled down to a gut feeling that "something didn't look right". That's why I mailed it to Jarred for a second opinion. I'd be interested to know if someone who is 100% certain that their copy is legit could verify what exactly it says around the inner ring of their copy...both words & numbers.

 

Sam wouldn't knowingly sell a boot would he?

 

You're kidding, right?

[& then]

The 2 red flags on my copies were the over-powering "new" smell & the colors of the band pics on both the back insert & backside of the front insert. On both my copies, the colors were too dark...the skin tone of the guy on the far left was almost orange, fer chrissakes. I guess for me it boiled down to a gut feeling that "something didn't look right". That's why I mailed it to Jarred for a second opinion. I'd be interested to know if someone who is 100% certain that their copy is legit could verify what exactly it says around the inner ring of their copy...both words & numbers.

 

I have an original, I will look on the inner ring & post what is there on mine, asap.

[glam_junkie]

Buy for the music - not for re-selling or labels and you won't have any problems will you? It's a simple solution.

 

 

The only problem I have with this comment is that people may be willing to spend $80 on an original but $10-15 on a reissue of the same disc. If they are paying the premium price, they deserve to know if it is an original.

 

I'm not directing this comment at the Hurricane discs, but just in general.

[& then]

On the "Take What You Want" that I have the only letters on the clear inner ring are "CSR" with letters/numbers on the silver on the disc "25XB-308" which is readable from both sides. I don't see any other letters/numbers on or near the inner ring. I hope this helps some!

[eaglesfan3000]

Buy for the music - not for re-selling or labels and you won't have any problems will you? It's a simple solution.

 

 

The only problem I have with this comment is that people may be willing to spend $80 on an original but $10-15 on a reissue of the same disc. If they are paying the premium price, they deserve to know if it is an original.

 

I'm not directing this comment at the Hurricane discs, but just in general.

 

EXACTLY, we are not getting what we are paying for. I'll PM Sam to see if he can make this right. So giving a generous price a boot for this is worth....what $20?