Frontiers sales figures

[simo]

Listening to Eclipse's 'Armageddonize' as I'm typing this. I've always wondered, how many copies get sold of new melodic rock albums everybody raves about and includes in their top ten lists for each year? Anyone have any info on how many albums the ''big'' names like Eclipse, Hardline, Revolution Saints etc. sell? What's a realistic number, like 5 or 10 thousand?

 

I remember back when Crashdiet's last album came out they had a thousand pre-orders and were overwhelmed by that number so I don't know, what do you guys think is a number that Frontiers and the artists can consider a ''success''?

[Geoff]

Funny timing you mention something like this as just at the end of last week I was thinking how much I'd love to see something like the top 50-100 albums from 2015, just purely in terms of sales figures. I'd find it so interesting, but I know there would be no-one collating these kind of figures for "our genre."

[Glen]

too embarrassing I would imagine

[kourosofsteel3]

Listening to Eclipse's 'Armageddonize' as I'm typing this. I've always wondered, how many copies get sold of new melodic rock albums everybody raves about and includes in their top ten lists for each year? Anyone have any info on how many albums the ''big'' names like Eclipse, Hardline, Revolution Saints etc. sell? What's a realistic number, like 5 or 10 thousand?

 

I remember back when Crashdiet's last album came out they had a thousand pre-orders and were overwhelmed by that number so I don't know, what do you guys think is a number that Frontiers and the artists can consider a ''success''?

 

 

Ha, sales figures, especially from Frontiers, in this age seems like a long lost Dead Sea scroll.

 

But, despite what they are maybe telling, surely there's still a profit to make.

[Fat Freddy]

They must be selling enough to keep the lights on and stay in business, but I doubt anyone in Frontiers land is driving Benzes or throwing lavish Playboy Mansion style parties where everyone is snorting cocaine from between the breasts of high class prostitutes....

[simo]

I guess you're right... of course recording an album doesn't cost nearly as much as it did 20 - 30 years ago so it could still be profitable. Was just curious cause sometimes the label would anounce ''we're proud that so and so made it to number 16 in the Swedish album charts'' or whatever. I was just wondering what that would mean in numbers you know. Together with maybe sales in Italy, Germany, France, UK, US and Japan... maybe it's more than we'd expect, maybe it's FAR less who knows

[simo]

Sometimes I can't imagine certain albums selling more than say.... 700 copies worldwide hahaha

 

But then again, I could be wrong

[kourosofsteel3]

Sometimes I can't imagine certain albums selling more than say.... 700 copies worldwide hahaha

 

But then again, I could be wrong

 

 

Don't forget the whole licensing thing (Frontiers licence a lot of her albums to various regions outside EUROPE/US).

[Kristian]

I've always thought that the number of cd's that were shipped out to record stores (be it physical stores or web-shops) counted as 'sold' cd's. Don't know if that's true.

It shouldn't really count as a sale though, if the cd is lying on shelf in a store somewhere, and never reaches a consumer.

[Nightrain]

I'm surprised if they can break the 5000 mark, I'm thinking around 1000 CDs, maybe 2000 top, for bigger names such as Stryper, Sebastian Bach, etc, maybe around 5000. That's the reason why making music nowadays should only be a hobby and sidejob

 

but for Frontiers, actually they're not losing money as they don't need to invest in production and marketing cost (perhaps only 2-3 graphic designers to maintain website and to create EPK) and maybe they only produce 1000 CDs / batch and most of them were sent to Amazon, AOR Heaven, musicbuymail and artist perhaps receive $1 or $2 / CD ?

 

if this is true and the production cost of one CD is around $3, then Frontiers still make $5 / CD if a CD is sold at $10. So if in one year they release 30 titles and in average they can sell 1000, it means $150k for them minus say $100k for any overhead cost or CD that didn't sell well, there's a possibility Serafino still have around $50k in his pocket

 

but I'm curious if anyone from the inside can reveal the actual numbers, or maybe Andrew knew something about this

[KarpetRydOFunk]

Didn't Stryper sell close to 10,000 copies of No More Hell to Pay , in the first week? I might be wrong about that, but I am sure it was number one when released.

[simo]

Yes forgot to mention Stryper in my original post. Had a quick look and according to Wikipedia both their studio albums from 2013 and 2015 sold 10 thousand copies. I guess they're one of the more ''popular'' bands on Frontiers which means if we use that as a guideline we can expect sales for other releases to be lower. Another one I assume sold well should be Toto's last record.

 

Don't forget Frontiers also has to cover costs like rent, salaries (last time I checked they had close to 10 employees I believe) and so on. I guess in the end it's enough to keep the label running

[kourosofsteel3]

I'm surprised if they can break the 5000 mark, I'm thinking around 1000 CDs, maybe 2000 top, for bigger names such as Stryper, Sebastian Bach, etc, maybe around 5000. That's the reason why making music nowadays should only be a hobby and sidejob

 

but for Frontiers, actually they're not losing money as they don't need to invest in production and marketing cost (perhaps only 2-3 graphic designers to maintain website and to create EPK) and maybe they only produce 1000 CDs / batch and most of them were sent to Amazon, AOR Heaven, musicbuymail and artist perhaps receive $1 or $2 / CD ?

 

if this is true and the production cost of one CD is around $3, then Frontiers still make $5 / CD if a CD is sold at $10. So if in one year they release 30 titles and in average they can sell 1000, it means $150k for them minus say $100k for any overhead cost or CD that didn't sell well, there's a possibility Serafino still have around $50k in his pocket

 

but I'm curious if anyone from the inside can reveal the actual numbers, or maybe Andrew knew something about this

 

 

 

Too many oversimplifications there, but I agree that the cost for a very average-"honest" production is round 3 euro/cd (for 1000 copies).

[Nightrain]

Yes forgot to mention Stryper in my original post. Had a quick look and according to Wikipedia both their studio albums from 2013 and 2015 sold 10 thousand copies. I guess they're one of the more ''popular'' bands on Frontiers which means if we use that as a guideline we can expect sales for other releases to be lower. Another one I assume sold well should be Toto's last record.

 

Don't forget Frontiers also has to cover costs like rent, salaries (last time I checked they had close to 10 employees I believe) and so on. I guess in the end it's enough to keep the label running

 

Stryper and a few other artists such as John Waite, Slaughter, Tom Keifer, and probably a bunch of other American bands were different because sometimes they also release their album on their own labels too (in Stryper case, they have Big3 records) and trust Frontiers to handle only European and rest of the world distribution, that's why sales mark might be double

[PeterS]

The general message seems to be not much? We should be really grateful people are prepared to put their time and effort into these releases as basically they are labors of love.

Here is a figure from the Wiki for the Whitesnake Purple Album. Not exactly a lot of sales for one of the biggest acts on their roster.

The album debuted at #84 on the Billboard 200 album chart in the US selling over 6,900 units in its first week of release.^[35]

[Geoff]

That's pretty big sales these days, isn't it? In one week? I'm amazed there's still that many people interested in the band in 2016, let alone buying their latest album in the first week of release.

[simo]

Not THAT many CDs sold in Whitesnake's case. On the other hand: when on tour they fill venues with 5 - 6000 (or more) people so interest in seeing them live is big, owning or hearing their latest release (maybe a lot of them downloaded it, who knows) ... not so much

[Nightrain]

That's pretty big sales these days, isn't it? In one week? I'm amazed there's still that many people interested in the band in 2016, let alone buying their latest album in the first week of release.

 

For indie label, that's quite big indeed, but several other veteran bands also doing quite well these days like Van Halen's A Different Kind of Truth sold 188.000 in the first week, AC/DC Rock or Bust did 172.000 copies, or Iron Maiden with The Book of Souls sold over 60.000 copies.

[Shane]

If a album sells 5-8 thousand units in this day and age, that's doing great.

I know that's sad to say but very true.

[nyoilers]

I'm sure Sweet & Lynch wouldn't be doing a follow up if the first one didn't make money.

[phaffas]

I'm sure Sweet & Lynch wouldn't be doing a follow up if the first one didn't make money.

is there a 2nd album coming?

[kourosofsteel3]

Hahahaha...

 

 

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ritchie-blackmore-sued-by-record-label-over-alleged-failure-to-promote-blackmores-night-album/

 

 

 

By the way, in their latest magazine, Blackmore, and before the fiasko with JLT, claimed that he couldn't play again hard rock due to arthritis.

[PeterS]

Wow. That advance is way higher than I would have expected.

[KarpetRydOFunk]

Wow. That advance is way higher than I would have expected.

Damn. You ain't never lie.

[Fat Freddy]

"Frontiers made it clear to [Blackmore] that it wanted the band to participate in face-to-face interviews, and that the band had to make itself available for such promotions.

"Despite [Blackmore's] obligations, the band participated in only four of the fourteen proposed interviews, thereby severely impacting Frontiers' promotional efforts. Similarly, while the band was in Germany as part of the 2015 tour, [Blackmore] refused to appear for six television appearances and refused to cooperate in the release of between 25 and 30 'yellow press' and tabloid media stories. [Blackmore] also refused to appear for two interviews set with Bild magazine during his time in Germany. [Blackmore] did so despite Frontiers having stressed to [the guitarist] the importance of the Bild magazine interviews, with Frontiers reminding [Blackmore] that Bild magazine was Germany's leading national publication. While an article eventually appeared in Bild magazine based on an interview conducted in the United States, significant promotional opportunities were missed as a result of [Blackmore's] failure to cooperate while in Germany.

"In addition to the failures [described] above, throughout the 2015 tour, and on
returning from the 2015 tour, [Blackmore] refused to make the band available for promotional opportunities in multiple countries, including in the United States, Germany, Japan, and the United Kingdom. Each of these four countries had been designated 'main territories' for promotion pursuant to the promotional clause of the agreement.

"After returning from the 2015 tour, [Blackmore] refused an interview that had been arranged with Young Guitar magazine. Young Guitar is an influential rock magazine in Japan and the interview that was refused was a significant promotional opportunity.

"No permissible excuse was provided by [Blackmore] for the band's failure to participate in the arranged promotional opportunities in Japan.

"During the 2015 tour, and after returning from the tour, [Blackmore] refused numerous promotional opportunities in the United Kingdom. [blackmore] refused interviews and features with Mojo and Uncut, the two leading British music magazines. [Blackmore] also refused interviews with Guitarist and Total Guitar, two other national magazines, and with both The Chronicle and Northern Echo newspapers. [Blackmore] similarly refused interviews that Frontiers had arranged with the following websites: Metalexpressradio.com, Musicradar website, RealXS Radio, Penwith Radio Cornwall, EKR.net radio and Future Radio, among others.

"During the 2015 tour, and after returning from the tour, [Blackmore] refused to participate in a major promotional opportunity that Frontiers had arranged in Sweden. Significantly, [Blackmore] refused to participate in an interview with Sweden Rock Magazine, an influential rock magazine that had offered to write a substantial article on the band and the album.

"After returning from the tour, [Blackmore] refused to participate in a significant promotional opportunity in Italy, where Frontiers is based. Specifically, [Blackmore] and the band refused to appear on a 'prime time' evening show, 'Gazebo', which aired on RAI TV, the principal national Italian television network.

"In addition to his failings in the overseas market, [Blackmore] failed to use his 'reasonable best efforts' to support Frontiers' efforts to promote the album in the United States.

"Beginning as early as August 2015, when the band returned to the United States,
[Blackmore] repeatedly failed to comply with Frontiers' request that [the guitarist] coordinate with Frontiers' digital marketing campaign, including Frontiers' requests that postings be made on [Blackmore's] and the band's social media sites, and certain promotional graphics and materials be used on those social media sites.

"On several occasions, [Blackmore] and his management failed to post promotional messages entirely, and on others, [the guitarist] posted incorrect or untimely information about the album release date.

"[Blackmore] failed on several occasions to include information and links to purchase the album from Frontiers on the band’s social media sites. [Blackmore's] failure to include payment information prevented customers from purchasing the album digitally, and thus directly affected the sales of the album by Frontiers.

"[Blackmore] also failed to respond to numerous requests from Frontiers and its local promotional partners regarding marketing of the album at medieval fairs being held in the United States.

"Medieval fairs are popular venues for the band's fans, and thus promotion of the album at such fairs was a major promotional opportunity to increase public awareness of the album.

"On multiple occasions, [Blackmore] refused to participate in arranged promotional activities based on [his] position that he would only participate jointly in interviews with Night if they were 'major' interviews. [Blackmore] also imposed other conditions on his participation in promotional efforts, including such demands as requiring that his interview be a 'cover'story, and that any story or interview be given prominence in the publication or broadcast.

 

Dang. I'm starting to understand why the other members of Deep Purple don't want him anywhere near them at the R&R hall of fame induction ceremony.